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Author Topic: End grain, long grain, and wood movement  (Read 1565 times)

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Offline 4nthony

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End grain, long grain, and wood movement
« on: May 10, 2023, 07:37 PM »
I'm rethinking my recessed drawer pull idea and revisiting my original pull idea. The problem I'm now noticing is I'd be attaching end grain to long grain and with the potential for expansion, might be looking at a mess depending on how much the doors expand.

How would you handle -- pun intended ;) -- this?



My doors and drawer fronts are 18mm thick and recessed 36mm (pulls are 54mm deep/wide):



Thanks!
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Anthony

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Offline luvmytoolz

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Re: End grain, long grain, and wood movement
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2023, 07:49 PM »
I've done similar and found as long as the trim and panel are sealed adequately you don't really get any expansion problems. On a table it would be a different story as it's so much wider, but for small doors/drawers and stuff like that I've not had issues.
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Offline ChuckS

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Re: End grain, long grain, and wood movement
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2023, 07:55 PM »
Not entirely familiar with your aesthetic and design requirements, my suggestion below is for cross-grain constructions in general:



Glue (in the center), screws, plugs and elongated holes are commonly used in cross-grain situations.
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Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: End grain, long grain, and wood movement
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2023, 10:19 PM »
My approach would be similar to Chuck's, but I would do them on the edge instead of the back. Race track shaped holes with flathead brass screws.
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Offline 4nthony

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Re: End grain, long grain, and wood movement
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2023, 12:27 AM »
Quote from: ChuckS on May 10, 2023, 07:55 PM
Not entirely familiar with your aesthetic and design requirements, my suggestion below is for cross-grain constructions in general:

Glue (in the center), screws, plugs and elongated holes are commonly used in cross-grain situations.

Quote from: jeffinsgf on May 10, 2023, 10:19 PM
My approach would be similar to Chuck's, but I would do them on the edge instead of the back. Race track shaped holes with flathead brass screws.

Thank you both.

Brass screws on the edge would be a nice visual when the doors are open. The same style pull would be used on the drawer fronts, and I could put a run of screws along the top edge of each drawer, too.

If I go in from the back, I think I'd have to make the shoulder (?) that covers the end grain a bit thinner so I'm not so close to either edge. Or completely remove it.

I'm so worried that I'm going to screw this up. I've got 4 doors and 6 drawer fronts to do.
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Anthony

"The best way to get a correct answer on the internet is to post an obviously wrong answer and wait for someone to correct you." - Kevin Kelly

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: End grain, long grain, and wood movement
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2023, 02:41 PM »
Can’t tell from pictures, but is the oak quarter sawn?
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Offline Packard

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Re: End grain, long grain, and wood movement
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2023, 03:13 PM »
Perhaps a sliding dovetail and pin in the center?
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Offline 4nthony

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Re: End grain, long grain, and wood movement
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2023, 03:58 PM »
Quote from: Birdhunter on May 11, 2023, 02:41 PM
Can’t tell from pictures, but is the oak quarter sawn?

Yes, it's quarter sawn.

Quote from: Packard on May 11, 2023, 03:13 PM
Perhaps a sliding dovetail and pin in the center?

I hadn't thought about that but the shape of the pulls could be reworked to allow for it. Would you put the groove on the pull or the door?
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Anthony

"The best way to get a correct answer on the internet is to post an obviously wrong answer and wait for someone to correct you." - Kevin Kelly

Offline Packard

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Re: End grain, long grain, and wood movement
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2023, 04:36 PM »
Quote from: 4nthony on May 11, 2023, 03:58 PM
Quote from: Birdhunter on May 11, 2023, 02:41 PM
Can’t tell from pictures, but is the oak quarter sawn?

Yes, it's quarter sawn.

Quote from: Packard on May 11, 2023, 03:13 PM
Perhaps a sliding dovetail and pin in the center?

I hadn't thought about that but the shape of the pulls could be reworked to allow for it. Would you put the groove on the pull or the door?

I would put the dovetail in the door.

Or maybe use a Hoffmann bow tie  wedge.

Here a guy is using Hoffman wedges in place of dominoes Or biscuits or dowels.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hoffmann+dovetail+key+joint+youtube&source=lmns&bih=817&biw=1283&client=firefox-b-1-m&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjf1qyrje7-AhWJF1kFHQnUCUcQ0pQJKAB6BAgBEAI#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:7432849b,vid:gMpJc4IRAlk

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Offline Birdhunter

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Re: End grain, long grain, and wood movement
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2023, 11:12 AM »
I have used a lot of quarter sawn white oak and have seen very little seasonal movement. I do build to accommodate seasonal movement across large glue-ups. With the small pieces in the drawer, I think you won’t see movement especially if the piece is indoors. If it lived outdoors, you might get movement.
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