Author Topic: Cedar T&G question  (Read 8322 times)

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Offline mntbighker

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Cedar T&G question
« on: December 10, 2007, 06:57 PM »
Does anyone know if I can get away with Cedar or Redwood T&G siding finish nailed and glued over ACQ ply as a deck substrate? I can't seem to locate any info on doing this. I have a stable surface but it needs cosmetic help and what I replaced was using that crappy indoor/outdoor astro turf glued to the ply. I need to cover my stairs and a small deck area. Parts are exposed to weather and sun while others just occasional spray from a hose. Cement board and tile have also been suggested but that sounds like a lot of work and expense where I could install the T&G in a weekend with my chop saw and nail gun. I prefer the look of weathered wood to anything else and I don't mind the nail holes. I also like the feel of wood over tile or astro turf.

Opinions?

--MM
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Cedar T&G question
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2007, 07:49 PM »
  It won't be a problem if you use stainless steel nails. Do a search on the net to find SS nails for you gun, if you don't already have a guy locally to get nails for you.
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Offline mntbighker

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Re: Cedar T&G question
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2007, 08:12 PM »
  It won't be a problem if you use stainless steel nails. Do a search on the net to find SS nails for you gun, if you don't already have a guy locally to get nails for you.

Brice,

So to be clear do you have personal experience with using a "siding" product this way? My only real concern is if it will be too fragile or too brittle to be walking on or having deck furniture on it. I figured on the stainless issue since it's ACQ. I used all stainless screws to assemble the deck. Do you suggest construction adhesive and the usual expansion room when installing or maybe just finish nails or is it better to use "real nails" or even screws in such a situation. All opinions welcomed, I'm in uncharted waters. It should be fun figuring out how to rip those narrow planks to size without a table saw (i.e. with my TS-55). I plan to make one side of the stair platform into a removable door behind which my air compressor will hide. The door will also be covered with the planks and probably have a thin ply backing. No hinges will be used (no room to swing) but I might use dzus fasteners or similar.

Thanks a bunch

--Mark
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Cedar T&G question
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2007, 08:32 PM »
  Mark, I don't really like the idea of using siding, but it would likely work. Yes, Cedar or Redwood sliding is a little fragile, but over the ply, it could hold up. It would rot faster on the ply, it will hold water on the underside, trapped between the ply and decking. Plus, pressure treated ply doesn't last too long in the weather, at least not here in Pittsburgh.

  If it were my house, I'd remove the ply and put down Trex on pressure treated lumber, joist, not plywood. You could use a wood decking in place of the Trex if you feel like real wood is a must.
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Offline mntbighker

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Re: Cedar T&G question
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2007, 09:39 PM »
  Mark, I don't really like the idea of using siding, but it would likely work. Yes, Cedar or Redwood sliding is a little fragile, but over the ply, it could hold up. It would rot faster on the ply, it will hold water on the underside, trapped between the ply and decking. Plus, pressure treated ply doesn't last too long in the weather, at least not here in Pittsburgh.

  If it were my house, I'd remove the ply and put down Trex on pressure treated lumber, joist, not plywood. You could use a wood decking in place of the Trex if you feel like real wood is a must.
Thanks Brice,

To give you some idea, my front deck is recently replaced non pressure treated 1 1/8 ply over steel jack stands and originally lasted 20 years out in the weather before it got squishy. My car port steps I rebuilt last week from ACQ ply and 2x6 ACQ fir also lasted 20 years non pressure treated. The steps were termite infested. I have my concerns about th moisture but I'm not about to start all over from scratch either. Mobile homes simply never seem to have conventional construction decks here and I have no building codes to deal with. I welcome the advise and it may alter my final plan. I could still look at other outdoor textile products. I wonder if they have less moisture retention issues than the planks would have or if there is a way to install the planks so they retain moisture less? Or perhaps I need to somehow seal the ply before installing the planks. I don't mind replacing the planks every few years, but I don't want to be rebuilding my deck and stairs.

--Mark
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Cedar T&G question
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2007, 10:06 PM »
  Mark, if rebuilding the framing is out of the question you could try sleepers (2x2 pressure treated strips) under the decking. This would allow air movement between the deck and ply and wouldn't trap water. I'd stay away from anything that will hold water, like  textile products.
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Offline Tinker

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Re: Cedar T&G question
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2007, 04:16 AM »
I am wondering that cedar might be too soft to stand up to wear of foot traffic and furniture placement. 

Brice is correct about keeping air space under the decking surface material.  if the underside of the deck is exposed to weather (open underneath), i would not use any substrate material.  Let it all breath. 

If the deck is over a closed in room or space, then, whether a base material is used, or not, I think each joint should be well caulked, whether T&G, half lapped or square edged.  The deck material should also be better sealed than if underside of framing is open. personally, i would go only with T&G decking over a closed in space. 

(I have built decks over exposed to weather framing with no problems.  i have NOT built any decks over closed in rooms with deck open to weather.  i always stayed away from them, so you don't want to take my advice here as coming from an expert with experience.) 

I have not had any experience with cement board.  That has come along since i got out of the construction biz, but my guess would be it is too brittle for use as a decking material.
Tinker
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Offline mntbighker

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Re: Cedar T&G question
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2007, 04:30 AM »
I am wondering that cedar might be too soft to stand up to wear of foot traffic and furniture placement. 

I wondered that myself.

Brice is correct about keeping air space under the decking surface material.  if the underside of the deck is exposed to weather (open underneath), i would not use any substrate material.  Let it all breath. 

If the deck is over a closed in room or space, then, whether a base material is used, or not, I think each joint should be well caulked, whether T&G, half lapped or square edged.  The deck material should also be better sealed than if underside of framing is open. personally, i would go only with T&G decking over a closed in space. 

(I have built decks over exposed to weather framing with no problems.  i have NOT built any decks over closed in rooms with deck open to weather.  i always stayed away from them, so you don't want to take my advice here as coming from an expert with experience.) 

I have not had any experience with cement board.  That has come along since i got out of the construction biz, but my guess would be it is too brittle for use as a decking material.
Tinker
The front deck is a large single sheet of very thick non treated exterior grade ply about 5 feet high sitting on steel jack stands with a perimeter sheet metal skirt. It is currently covered with a green material like what they cover car speaker boxes with. It has been ruined by the sun in just a few years and looks like junk. The car port stairs are protected by an awning and I just rebuilt mostly copying the original only I used ACQ 3/4 inch ply and 2x6 ACQ fir. So in this context "deck" is almost the wrong terminology. It is not a conventional deck but I want them both to resemble one when I'm done. I will at the very least use cedar siding on the sides of the car port stairs and parts of the front "deck".

--Mark
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Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: Cedar T&G question
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2007, 02:53 PM »
  It won't be a problem if you use stainless steel nails. Do a search on the net to find SS nails for you gun, if you don't already have a guy locally to get nails for you.

McFeeley's carries SS nails for several applications.

Dave R.
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Offline Eli

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Re: Cedar T&G question
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2007, 06:16 PM »
I think the top groove on the deck boards will be the first part to splinter from foot traffic. But no question it will look better than the green stuff they cover car speakers with.  :o ;D
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Offline mntbighker

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Re: Cedar T&G question
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2007, 06:55 PM »
I think I have decided to go with a sand/epoxy mix goop on the actual tread surfaces and deck. I believe you can get that stuff in a rainbow of color choices. The vertical surfaces will get redwood T&G.

--Mark
Festoolian since November 2007

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