Author Topic: Azek  (Read 36643 times)

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Offline hamsey

  • Posts: 28
Azek
« on: June 17, 2008, 12:54 PM »
Has anyone used this material? Any tips for installation? I will be finishing a porch soon would would like to get a heads up. TIA

Norm

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Offline Mike Chrest

  • Posts: 386
  • N.W. New York State
Re: Azek
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2008, 01:30 PM »
Norm,
 What do you want to know? I could write a book on it ;D
Mike

Better yet. Here's a search.

http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/search.php?searchid=989837
« Last Edit: June 17, 2008, 01:36 PM by Mike Chrest »

Offline hamsey

  • Posts: 28
Re: Azek
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2008, 03:39 PM »
Norm,
 What do you want to know? I could write a book on it ;D
Mike

Thanks Mike for getting back to me. I have read some stuff @ JLC about azek. What I would like to know about is bonding can I use bond & fill instead of the Azek glue? What are the best joints to keep it from moving. I was thinking about a ship lap joint but that might be too difficult with the tablesaw some of the pieces are going to be 17'. Would pocketholes be a good idea to hold Azek sheets together? How much do I have to worry about expansion?

Norm

Offline Mike Chrest

  • Posts: 386
  • N.W. New York State
Re: Azek
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2008, 04:53 PM »
Hi Norm,
  I have used Bond & Fill structural to glue up Azek. It works well. It is more expensive than Azek glue but it is gap filling. I use the red claw biscuits and tap the butt joint together with a rubber mallet. Don't tap too hard or you'll squeeze all the glue out and it will shoot up and spit in your face ( ask me how I know this ;D)
 
   The pocket holes might work. I was going to try them but the parts I am working on are 18" wide and I haven't figured out a good way to stop the parts from going out of alignment when I snug up the joint (need real deep throat face clamps I guess). If your parts are real long how were you going to pocket drill? On the face? ???
 
One guy on JLC uses pocket holes for Azek window trim and reported good results. He used stainless screws,drilled the pocket hole from the back, and pre-assembled before attaching.

  Ship lap joint would work. You can cut them with a router & speed square. I think I would still go with the claw biscuits and butt joints.

  Azek recommends 1/8" expansion gap per 18' of run. Bond & Fill makes a elastic filler just for this expansion gap.

 I use a coil siding nailer to attach Azek (stainless steel ring shank). Some people say you should use screws but the stuff I put on my house is still looking good ;D

  If you are going to paint it scuff it up first (220 grit) and use a primer.

Mike
« Last Edit: June 17, 2008, 05:47 PM by Mike Chrest »

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Azek
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2008, 08:32 PM »
  Norm, Mike, I use a ton of Azek each summer. There is a few things to know about it to produce good results. The first thing I'd recommend is calling a local Azek rep, Azek has spent a lot of time training reps over the last couple years and most know there stuff now. It's my understanding no sanding or primer is used when painting. I used a Sherwin-Williams paint to paint Azek last year, I turn over the job to painters for every other job, but I'm pretty sure they didn't sand or prime. I have used pocket screws many times on Azek, ss screws and Azek glue on the joint, works well. Pre assembly with pocket screws is the only way to do it. I've used ship lap joints on sheets only, it too works well.

I know Azek has decking and porch flooring, I haven't seen it yet. I hope it works better than the Tendura.

Good luck.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2008, 10:07 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Mike Chrest

  • Posts: 386
  • N.W. New York State
Re: Azek
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2008, 09:37 PM »
Quote
I have used pocket screws many time on Azek, ss screws and Azek glue on the joint, works well

Thanks Brice. Good to know.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2008, 09:37 PM by Mike Chrest »

Offline hamsey

  • Posts: 28
Re: Azek
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2008, 09:57 AM »
Thanks for the info. Mike & Brice!

I am looking into the red claw biscuits and butt joint (Can't use this as an excuse to get a domino). That's the way I am now leaning instead of the ship lap joints (My hand held router technique stinks, and I do not want to learn using Azek). I will also go with pocket screws. Tough to find the S.S. pocket screws but Amazon has them (Kreg).

Do you think 16Ga. S.S. finish nails would be enough? I already bought GRK RT composite trim head screws. I was thinking about using the screws and filling the holes with bond & fill. For the interior base, ceiling and casing trim I am just going to use the finish nails and screw everything else. I did read about the 1/8" expansion. From what I could find online people talked about it expanding more than that.

I will not be painting the outside but, the interior Azek will be painted. We are doing Azek inside and out because we will take out the sashes during the hot times to get more air and storms do pop up when we are not home.

If you think about any other tips or suggestions please post them.

Thanks,

Norm

Offline Mike Chrest

  • Posts: 386
  • N.W. New York State
Re: Azek
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2008, 01:26 PM »
Norm,
  You could custom mill some plastic Domino's. ;)  Sounds like a good excuse ( to buy one) to me. ;D ;D ;D
Mike

PS: If you get the Bondfill, get the slow set. Get extra nozzels too.

I replaced a window inside a shower that had rotted. I used a vinyl window and Azek for the trim(used 16g ss trim nails). In the sun I would worry about them pulling through the plastic (let me know if it works). Bondfill works good as a filler. It does shrink a bit so goop it on high and chisel off the extra after it sets.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 01:39 PM by Mike Chrest »

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Azek
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2008, 04:04 PM »
I use the Domino for Azek, I'll be using it tommorrow in fact. It is pretty to make Azek domino tenons, I use the Azek glue and I'm all set. Norm, I use SS screws whenever I can and a finish nailer on the moldings.
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Offline hamsey

  • Posts: 28
Re: Azek
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2008, 08:46 AM »
It is pretty to make Azek domino tenons

Care to share? Do you cut down the bond & fill biscuits? What size tenon do you make?

What would be the best adhesive to use? I was going to use bond & fill + biscuits? Could I use the Azek adhesive with the bond & fill biscuits? Does it matter which adhesive I use?

Thanks!

Norm
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 01:10 PM by hamsey »

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Azek
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2008, 05:18 PM »
It is pretty to make Azek domino tenons

Care to share? Do you cut down the bond & fill biscuits? What size tenon do you make?

What would be the best adhesive to use? I was going to use bond & fill + biscuits? Could I use the Azek adhesive with the bond & fill biscuits? Does it matter which adhesive I use?

Thanks!

Norm

Norm, I rip 5/4" Azek into 3/16" strips, then crosscut them to length. I use the 5 mm cutter in the Domino, Azek glue.
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ericbuggeln

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Re: Azek
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2008, 05:47 PM »
Brice, have you/can you make dominoes with other composites?
 
Do you do mostly new work with Azek or repairs that have been rotted out?  Be careful, depending on the answer I will have follow up questions ::)  chop shop hood definitely works well on site, thanks for the great review that you took the time out to write and document.  It was the push I needed, Eric

Offline JJ Wavra

  • Posts: 251
Re: Azek
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2008, 06:58 PM »
I have a question about azek.  I was wondering if it could be laminated together to make brackets that are under the soffit  in an exterior application.  I see that it comes in 1 inch thick sheets so it would take maybe for or five sheets laminated together.  I am asking because a relative is looking for something that would outlast wood in this application.

I hope I am making sence the brackets ( I hope that is the name for it) look structural on older homes but are simply decoration.

thanks
JJ

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Azek
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2008, 08:22 PM »
Eric, Azek can be used on both new work and repairs. I use it on repairs, because that's the market I'm in, basically no new construction in the city of Pittsburgh. I also most never use wood outside anymore, when I do it's spanish cedar. Glad you liked the review.

Wavra, you're talking about nonstructural corbels, yes you could laminate Azek to make them (Azek can't be used for structural applications). The only downside to laminating Azek is that you can some times see the seems where the plies meet. For the most part this isn't a problem, but the lines are visible. Thirty feet in the air you won't see them, but up close maybe. Azek trim boards are textured one side as stock items, they do make a non-textured stock, but you may have to special order it, no big deal. For laminating get the non-textured stock.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 08:45 PM by Brice Burrell »
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ericbuggeln

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Re: Azek
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2008, 10:14 PM »
Brice, I asked b/c I didn't know and that is what I do a lot of in the nicer weather times.  Usually McMansions that are around ten years old and homeowners are ticked there house is falling apart. :P  Do you ever use wood hardener on areas behind trim that aren't trashed but could use a little attention and would otherwise take a lot more time and work to rip out, i.e. you think homeowner is not going to want to pay you for taking apart entire home.  Eric

Offline JJ Wavra

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Re: Azek
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2008, 10:53 PM »
Thanks brice much appreciated!

JJ

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Azek
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2008, 11:07 PM »
Brice, I asked b/c I didn't know and that is what I do a lot of in the nicer weather times.  Usually McMansions that are around ten years old and homeowners are ticked there house is falling apart. :P  Do you ever use wood hardener on areas behind trim that aren't trashed but could use a little attention and would otherwise take a lot more time and work to rip out, i.e. you think homeowner is not going to want to pay you for taking apart entire home.  Eric

Eric, a 15 year old McMansion is what I'm working on now. I don't use wood hardener, I replace everything. Because the cost to come back to replace the wood I left behind in a few years is just too high. It's far less expensive to do it all the work now. I don't do budget work unless I absolutely have to, I want to do the job right, with the right materials. Azek isn't cheap, it is a premium product and the job should be looked at as a long term solution. Not a temporary fix that will need to be revisited in a few years when paint starts to fail on the old wood.

I forgot to add this to my earlier post, I've not used other composites to make dominos.
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ericbuggeln

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Re: Azek
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2008, 11:50 PM »
Brice, I feel the same way you do about repairing it the first time.  I was recently working on a McMansion that my guys were painting and all the bottom panels were rotted out in the entryway, amongst other things.  The ones on top were visibly okay, but when you hit them with your palm you could tell they had been compromised and would fail eventually with new caulking and paint, no matter what technology.  While ripping out the bottom panels, exterior ply, I got to the studs which had some minor surface rot.  I scraped it off back to solid wood and let it air out for two days, wood hardened the studs, replaced everything and it looks better then any of the other panels on the house.  The dilemma I have is at that point I could have sold you that the hole entryway needed to be ripped out.  Since I'm a small company and we don't bang out houses, I usually get to know the homeowners personally and try to feel out how much they want to spend.  In this case they were done spending and were more interested in redoing the deck next summer.  I explain everything to them and give them all the options including Azek.  90% of them tell me they don't know if they will be there in 3-5 years.  Most of these jobs are paint and repair as that is how I got into contracting.  A McMansion in ct. goes from $600,000-$850,000, so going rate on paint job can be all the homeowner really has.  McMansion here can equal "Porsche owner, no money for gas" here.  I don't give carpentry bid until after "pressure wash" inspection and in many instances it's way worse then what the homeowner expects.  I have a lot of houses where the separate carpentry costs as much as the total paint bill.  My reputation is really good in this neighborhood association and I have been back to most of the homes I have worked on and my work has held up, so I feel like I am making the right decision.   The entire neighborhood is a 90's building boom nightmare, but for now it almost pays for me to have a workshop.

Just thought I would tell you where I'm coming from.  One of the reasons I come to this forum is to broaden my horizons and scope of work so that I will be able to do more work that a higher level of craftsmanship is needed and wanted, Eric

Offline jpb

  • Posts: 10
Re: Azek
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2008, 05:54 PM »
As a side note, keep the scraps, they are great for use as router patterns, very easy to get a smooth edge.

Offline tvgordon

  • Posts: 501
  • Springfield, Ohio
Re: Azek
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2008, 11:00 AM »
My flooring (decking?) on my front and back porches needs replaced too.  I was looking at Azeks website at their products for porches and it looks like the same tongue and groove style thats on the house now.

How much difference in cost is there between the Azek and treated lumber?  I wouldn't have to use glue for this project would I?  Just screw it with ss screws?

Thanks for the help, I should replace them before winter but it may end up being a spring project.

Tom.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Azek
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2008, 07:19 PM »
My flooring (decking?) on my front and back porches needs replaced too.  I was looking at Azeks website at their products for porches and it looks like the same tongue and groove style thats on the house now.

How much difference in cost is there between the Azek and treated lumber?  I wouldn't have to use glue for this project would I?  Just screw it with ss screws?

Thanks for the help, I should replace them before winter but it may end up being a spring project.

Tom.


Tom, I been meaning to look into the Azek porch flooring. I know it's 1" thick T&G composit material, not solid PVC like the trim boards and sheet goods. I'd guess the cost is going to be way higher than treated lumber, maybe $2.50-$3.00 a linear foot. Note that linear foot, not square foot, so you're talking $10-$13 a sq. ft. Here's a link to the Azek site for the porch flooring.
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Offline Eiji Fuller

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Re: Azek
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2008, 10:50 AM »
I have used Azek before, Man is it expensive. It is about 170.00 per 4x8 sheet in 3/4. I use Extira for my exterior projects. I find it much easire to work and you can use regular wood glue with it. www.extira.com  It is about 1/3 the cost and has a typeII waterproof rating.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Azek
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2008, 11:13 AM »
I have used Azek before, Man is it expensive. It is about 170.00 per 4x8 sheet in 3/4. I use Extira for my exterior projects. I find it much easire to work and you can use regular wood glue with it. www.extira.com  It is about 1/3 the cost and has a typeII waterproof rating.

"Extira has a 5-year limited warranty"

Is that long enough? It is clearly a big step up from wood or MDF but how does it compare to Azek?

Offline chris mann

  • Posts: 39
Re: Azek
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2008, 11:27 PM »
"Extira has a 5-year limited warranty"

Is that long enough? It is clearly a big step up from wood or MDF but how does it compare to Azek?

It's completely different.  Pretty much like working with MDF, except not quite so fuzzy.  You can use regular wood glue, easy to paint, don't think it expands quite the same or as much as Azek, and the shavings don't stick to everything.   It's also a heck of a lot cheaper.

I trimmed out my whole house in Miratec (which is the exact same thing in trim form and with a 30 year warranty).  I have some scraps that I've left outside for the past few years with cut ends and have seen negligible swelling or checking.

-chris

Offline tvgordon

  • Posts: 501
  • Springfield, Ohio
Re: Azek
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2008, 06:54 PM »
Thanks Brice,

I did not think it would be that expensive.  I'll probably stick with wood because my house/ neighborhood values wouldn't justify spending that amount on the porch flooring.

Tom.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Azek
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2008, 08:58 PM »
Tom, I been meaning to look into the Azek porch flooring. I know it's 1" thick T&G composit material, not solid PVC like the trim boards and sheet goods. I'd guess the cost is going to be way higher than treated lumber, maybe $2.50-$3.00 a linear foot. Note that linear foot, not square foot, so you're talking $10-$13 a sq. ft. Here's a link to the Azek site for the porch flooring.

Tom, my guess was correct, the Azek porch flooring is $2.88 USD a linear foot here in Pittsburgh. I installed some today, nice stuff, of course I thought that about Tendura also ::). It can be screwed or nail with a flooring nailer, around 3 1/8" exposure and 7/8" or so thick. A couple of colors to choose from and the color goes all the way through. Azek doesn't recommend painting it.

EDIT: I've got to make some corrections, first, I was wrong about the price, it's $3.50 a linear foot!! It's 1" thick with a 3 1/4" exposure.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 05:02 PM by Brice Burrell »
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