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Author Topic: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?  (Read 3852 times)

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Offline oscaro928

  • Posts: 6
Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« on: April 08, 2020, 02:35 PM »
Hi, 

 I don't want to support communist China so I was wondering where is the Kapex 120 made? Wish it was made in the USA
but...

Oscar

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Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
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  • Remington Steele - My Third Boy
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2020, 03:09 PM »
Festool's factories are in Germany.

Peter

Offline wpz

  • Posts: 95
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2020, 07:11 PM »
That is actually a really difficult question and depends on the definition of "made":

The machines are probably assembled in the Festool factory in Wedlingen, Germany.
Some of the components such as the aluminium extrusions are probably made in the Czech Rebublic at Festools sister company Narex, while some electronic components might be made in Japan, Vietnam, Thailand or China.
The ball bearings will probably be made in China, but the steel for those ball bearings might be forged in Japan or Sweden. The chemicals for the lubricant probably come from Detroit (U.S.) or Antwerp (Belgium).
The iron ore for the steel probably comes from Australia or Brazil and the aluminium ore (bauxite) from Australia or China.
The Petroleum for the ABS plastic systainers probably comes from Saudi Arabia or Russia and the systainers are designed by Tanos in Germany, but I have no idea in which countries they are produced.
The blade of the Kapex is made by German company Leitz, but the tungsten comes from China, Russia or the U.S.

So would you consider the Kapex to be "made" in Germany?

I guess my point is: is there anything that is solaly made in 1 country and by one company?
Let's suppose there is a product where all the resources are coming from the USA, but the machines on which the product is made (e.g. a lathe or CNC machine) are made in China, is it still made in the USA then?

Maybe it is better to put "assembled in Germany, made on earth" on Festools  [huh]


No offence meant here, just some food for thought in a globalised world.
wpz

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1290
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2020, 12:39 AM »
@wpz I agree with you. It's often hard to tell where a tool has been MADE.

To me to have the label Made in a product need three criterias;

1) Designed
2) Assembled
3) Quality Control

P.S. provide your own creteria where it fit.

Raw material is most of the time an economic factor.
Mario

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 575
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2020, 10:17 AM »
Mario - where would you then place some of DeWalt's tools that are designed, assembled and QC'd stateside but have all (or most) their parts produced in China ?

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3516
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2020, 10:41 AM »
There is no one single set of definition of "Made in."

As far as I'm concerned, I go by what the label says on the product. The Bosch tools I have say they're made in Mexico, so does my Canon camera. SawStop...I know it's from Taiwan.

Festool...Germany.

Veritas, easy peasy Canada.

Milwaukee...interesting: "Made in Korea with further processing in China." I wouldn't consider it Made in China in this case.

Sometimes, I see a "Assembled in" label. I won't be able to tell where it's made in. But i know it is NOT made in where it's assembled in.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 12:15 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3767
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2020, 10:52 AM »
I have bought a number of Starrett measuring tools. If they are available, I buy the US made ones. I have been lead to believe that they are totally of US manufacture. I have some of the “Global” series tools and they seem to be well made. If someone knows about the Global tools, I would appreciate the information.
Birdhunter

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 1697
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2020, 11:01 AM »
I just bought 2 Starrett metric tape measures: https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/member-connections/what-non-festool-tool-workshop-related-gizmostuff-did-you-buy-today/msg604709/#msg604709.  I was surprised to see they were both Made in China. 
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

TS55, CT26, RO150, CXS, ETS 150/3, ETS EC 150/5, MFT/3, TS75, DF500, DTS400, OF1400, CT SYS

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1290
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2020, 11:06 AM »
Mario - where would you then place some of DeWalt's tools that are designed, assembled and QC'd stateside but have all (or most) their parts produced in China ?

Slightly Made in USA  [tongue]
Mario

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3516
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2020, 11:14 AM »


Slightly Made in USA  [tongue]

Bold mine.

 [thumbs up]

In the future, we might see: "Most likely made in," "Questionably made in," "67.53% made in," etc. or even, "24.31% NOT made in," [tongue] [tongue] [tongue]
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 12:13 PM by ChuckM »

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 9680
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2020, 11:51 AM »
1. I have bought a number of Starrett measuring tools. If they are available, I buy the US made ones. I have been lead to believe that they are totally of US manufacture.

2. I have some of the “Global” series tools and they seem to be well made.

3. If someone knows about the Global tools, I would appreciate the information.

1. They are of USA manufacture and they also usually carry the marking somewhere of:
"The L. S. Starrett Company
Athol, Mass USA"

While the Global Series of tools will simply state "Starrett".

2. I don't know about the build quality or the material quality of Global Starrett tools, however Starrett does certify the measurement precision is the same between the USA & the Global Series.

3. The Global series of Starrett tools was launched several years ago so they could provide a price competitive product to the market place.
For instance, a 6" dial caliper in the Global Series costs $116.
While the same 6" dial caliper from the USA series costs $220.

https://www.starrett.com/documentation/definitions/global-series

Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2020, 12:32 PM »
Just to add a different perspective to this discussion...

At Woodpeckers everything that says "Woodpeckers" on it is machined, milled, anodized, finished, assembled and packaged in our facility or within 30 miles (we send out the anodizing). We have been advised not to put "Made In USA" on anything where the raw materials aren't specifically from the USA. That's why most of our new squares now say "Made in USA from German and Domestic Materials" or "Made in USA from Foreign and Domestic Materials". We're getting certificates of origin from all our suppliers. All of this because some companies like to push the boundaries of what "Made In USA" means.


Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 481
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2020, 12:58 PM »
This stuff gets very complex with globally sourced products made for the international markets.  Here in the USA there are regulations requiring that manufacturers label motor vehicles specifying domestic content covering both materials and labor.  In the end there is a global manufacturing system and for products that are both technologically complex and produced in high volumes the content will come from the most cost effective source.  Try to buy a 100% made in USA or Germany smartphone.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3516
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2020, 01:03 PM »
... or a TV set or a laptop.

Offline elfick

  • Posts: 679
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2020, 01:25 PM »
I think the generally accepted definition is equivalent to "assembled". I usually see something like "Assembled in <blah> with globally sourced materials."

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3516
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2020, 01:28 PM »
My local newspaper says all the millions of N95 masks the US is getting in the coming days and weeks are made by 3M in its factories located in China. In terms of quality and specifications, I can safely assume that the imported ones are as good as those produced in the US factories.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 01:34 PM by ChuckM »

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 481
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2020, 01:30 PM »
Assembly is tricky as to being meaningful, you can take a cordless drill less battery, slap in the battery pack, box it and claim assembly wherever that was done.

Offline TSO_Products

  • Retailer
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    • TSO Products LLC
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2020, 01:36 PM »
- in terms of influencing buying decisions, - at TSO we look to "who are we buying FROM?"
That is who we need to have confidence in and that is who we hold accountable.
Availability in the US is a filter that all supply chains have to go through.

The US commercial fastener industry many years ago moved totally off-shore as far as we can tell. The stainless screws on our products almost certainly all come from Asia. All of our aluminum plate comes from North America - but not all of it comes from USA. Our extrusions are made in Minnesota - but aluminum ingot is a commodity. Do you know where your gasoline is "Made" . . .?

For these reasons we are moving toward labeling that will read something like "Made in USA from domestic and globally sourced materials".

In the end we, TSO Products, are accountable to the customer for value and performance.

Hans and Eric

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5476
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2020, 01:44 PM »
As far as quality is concerned all that matters is the quality of the quality control.

If you want to restrict you purchasing to a specific labor force location you’ll have to make significant compromises in terms of quality on/or value.

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 920
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2020, 02:58 PM »
That is actually a really difficult question and depends on the definition of "made":

The machines are probably assembled in the Festool factory in Wedlingen, Germany.
Some of the components such as the aluminium extrusions are probably made in the Czech Rebublic at Festools sister company Narex, while some electronic components might be made in Japan, Vietnam, Thailand or China.
The ball bearings will probably be made in China, but the steel for those ball bearings might be forged in Japan or Sweden. The chemicals for the lubricant probably come from Detroit (U.S.) or Antwerp (Belgium).
The iron ore for the steel probably comes from Australia or Brazil and the aluminium ore (bauxite) from Australia or China.
The Petroleum for the ABS plastic systainers probably comes from Saudi Arabia or Russia and the systainers are designed by Tanos in Germany, but I have no idea in which countries they are produced.
The blade of the Kapex is made by German company Leitz, but the tungsten comes from China, Russia or the U.S.

So would you consider the Kapex to be "made" in Germany?

I guess my point is: is there anything that is solaly made in 1 country and by one company?
Let's suppose there is a product where all the resources are coming from the USA, but the machines on which the product is made (e.g. a lathe or CNC machine) are made in China, is it still made in the USA then?

Maybe it is better to put "assembled in Germany, made on earth" on Festools  [huh]


No offence meant here, just some food for thought in a globalised world.
wpz

Wonderful post! While I’m aware of the global construct, but reading your breakdown was wonderful.

As for the OP. . well I don’t care for the sentiment, probably typed on a device made in China. But maybe it’s just the result of the current sabre rattling between two great nations. .
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline wpz

  • Posts: 95
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2020, 06:35 PM »
We're 20 posts in on a Kapex topic and no mention of smoke yet! [eek]
So I'll just do it myself then:
Most of the smoke coming out of Kapexes is made in the USA [tongue]


I'll get my coat now...
wpz

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2020, 07:01 PM »
We're 20 posts in on a Kapex topic and no mention of smoke yet! [eek]
So I'll just do it myself then:
Most of the smoke coming out of Kapexes is made in the USA [tongue]


I'll get my coat now...
wpz

If you wish to post about the Kapex issues long written about here, please do so in the appropriate topics and don't pollute other threads.

Peter - Moderator

Offline wpz

  • Posts: 95
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2020, 07:13 PM »
I don't have any issues with a Kapex, as I have never owned one and I've also never been to the US.
It was just an attempt at humour, but it's clearly a very delicate topic.
My apologies.

Do you wish me to remove my post?
wpz

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3516
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2020, 07:19 PM »
Your previous post about smoke was obvious to me a light-hearted attempt. But we people all have different degrees of sensitivity.

Offline wpz

  • Posts: 95
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2020, 07:48 PM »
To be honest, I've only once had a festool product fail (the auto clean on my ct36) and that was repaired quickly and thoroughly by Festool free of charge almost 5 years after purchase, so certainly no complaints there.
I bought my first Festool in 2002 and own almost 30 Festool or Protool machines and they keep serving me well to this day, something that cannot be said about some machines from other brands I have owned over the years.

Anyway, I'll try to stick to the topic again from now on.
wpz
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 07:50 PM by wpz »

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2020, 08:14 PM »
It is not a delicate topic to me.  I realize that there was humor intended in the post.

Peter

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 537
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2020, 09:48 AM »
I have mentioned this long ago. My understanding is that in the European Union, Made in X can depend on where the most value is added. Components of a product may be imported from Asia, but if the majority of the product costs are incurred in the European country, then the product can be labeled as made in that country.

Because labor costs in Europe are much higher, a product could have over 50% material made elsewhere, but the labor cost of assembly allows for the made in Europe type label.

Can someone shed further light on this?

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5476
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2020, 09:58 AM »
The only Festool of mine that has failed was made in Germany with German parts, before some production was shifted to other EU counties. It failed not long after the warranty ended and although the failure was mostly bad bearings the repair cost was too close to the cost of a new tool to be worth paying.

You pay your money and you take your chances.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3516
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2020, 10:39 AM »
The origin of country is not an absolute guarantee for quality.

A few years ago, at Walmart, I saw two BBQ stoves on offer, one made in USA and the other China. I took the American one, only slightly higher in price. Poor workmanship resulted in the upper shelf to dislodge itself after you opened the lid several times. The problem could've been caught and fixed if the factory had had a tighter QC process in place.

Of course, I did not return it or exchange it, but I had to use a pair of pliers to fix the problem. My previous BBQ (non-American, did not check if it was made in China, most likely) died from rusting through but had no issues of any kind.


Offline ForumMFG

  • Posts: 1013
Re: Where is the Kapex 120REB made?
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2020, 11:57 PM »
I have from stuff from festool that says it was made in poland...


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