Author Topic: Warranty issues using DD / non-Festool vac (Read 168740 times)

jacko9 · « **Reply #30 on:** May 14, 2013, 09:25 PM »

Has anyone contacted Oneida with this continuing issue? I have the Oneida V-System shop system and I'm very happy with it and I have the UDD on my CT22 which I am now concerned about. I have contacted my sales representative at Oneida about the concerns expressed here on the FOG and I was wondering if anybody else has contacted them for a solution?

Jack

rrmccabe · « **Reply #31 on:** May 14, 2013, 10:21 PM »

I did. They sent me the cheap tape solution which I didn't use. They act like its no big deal that I had to buy a new $145 controller.

I also sent an email to customer service about 10 days ago. No response.

The way I look at it the UDD is a turnkey solution that comes at a premium price of twice the cost of standard DD.

farms100 · « **Reply #32 on:** May 14, 2013, 10:57 PM »

Wrapping the plastic DD in tinfoil would give you lots of surface area. Also it would fit in well with any friends that are conspiracy theorists.

Julimor · « **Reply #33 on:** May 15, 2013, 12:27 AM »

Quote from: JuliMor on May 14, 2013, 02:09 PM

You can use copper tape to do the same thing as in the photo above.

I was thinking this:

Regardless, the bottom line is how important is it to the owner of a Festool vac to catch dust and chips before it reaches the vacuum bag? For me, as I stated earlier, I won't connect the DD to the CT vac. It's a great system as is. Each owner has to decide for himself or herself what's most important to them and accept any consequences that may happen from ignoring Festool's recommendations.

Quote from: rrmccabe on May 14, 2013, 10:21 PM

I did. They sent me the cheap tape solution which I didn't use. They act like its no big deal that I had to buy a new $145 controller.

I also sent an email to customer service about 10 days ago. No response.

The way I look at it the UDD is a turnkey solution that comes at a premium price of twice the cost of standard DD.

Sorry to hear that happened. Though it doesn't say much about Oneida, does it?

Paul G · « **Reply #34 on:** May 15, 2013, 02:49 AM »

Quote from: farms100 on May 14, 2013, 10:57 PM

Wrapping the plastic DD in tinfoil would give you lots of surface area. Also it would fit in well with any friends that are conspiracy theorists.

Which explains why they are rarely affected by all the static that is thrown at them

Gonna add some grounding to my Oneida and see how it goes.

farms100 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 15, 2013, 08:18 AM »

that copper tape looks pretty cool.

I wonder as you wrap the tape up and overlap like you would when taping a splice. Would the adhesive interfere with the good grounding contact?

rrmccabe · « **Reply #36 on:** May 15, 2013, 10:01 AM »

Quote from: doc4som on May 14, 2013, 01:33 AM

So..... after reading all these dissertations... can someone give an electrically -challenged individual a "grounding for dummies" version of what to actually do with a plastic and/or metallic DustDeputy connected to a Festool vac? Diagrams , pictures, part lists would be welcomed.

The problem is there is no official and perfect fix. Because no matter what you do with Oneida you are still going to have 'potential' warranty issues with Festool.

The other issue is Oneida has come out with a repair that is Mickey Mouse and is cheap for them to provide. In my opinion its an eye sore and prone to failure when the tape breaks after a few times sliding the hoses on and off.

In a nutshell Oneida wants you to electrically connect the inlet and outlet of the cyclone as well as the base. They want you to connect this to ground although they don't tell you how.

I basically followed Oneida's electrical recommendations but did it in a physical manner that I felt was acceptable and properly done.

So as you requested here are a few pictures. As you can see I formed thin copper to fit the cyclone inlet and outlet and made a tab that sticks inside where the debris drops into the box. I connected all of this with wires (and a connector for easy removal) and ran it back to the inlet of the CT where I have another formed copper piece and a wire entering the CT and connecting to the power bus.

Note: Blue wire connected to bus is the one I added.

Oneida-Jeff · « **Reply #37 on:** May 21, 2013, 04:34 PM »

A few of our customers have reported static problems while using the Dust Deputy. Oneida is offering an upgraded grounding kit which includes a
more-conductive hose and supplemental grounding components free of charge for those customers. This should eliminate any static problems on vacuums with static conductive inlets which are properly connected to a functional house ground.

Couple notes:
Not all vacuums have a static-conductive inlet. Please ensure that your vacuum has an anti-static inlet and if it does not you must provide an alternate direct earth ground path from your hose and connections.

Some people have reported that their static problems were caused by an improperly connected house ground. Please ensure you are properly connected to a house ground per your vacuum’s instructions.

Currently all Oneida Ultimate Dust Deputies from the factory have static dissipative components and these supplemental grounding measures to ensure a completely grounded system.

Please click here for more info and to request the upgrade kit.

-Jeff
Oneida Air Systems

Luis (ridgenj) · « **Reply #38 on:** May 21, 2013, 04:50 PM »

Jeff, many thanks for the update and for standing behind your products.

My best
Luis

rrmccabe · « **Reply #39 on:** May 21, 2013, 05:06 PM »

Quote from: Oneida-Jeff on May 21, 2013, 04:34 PM

and supplemental grounding components

Thanks for response. By supplimental grounding components do you mean 3' of foil stick on tape?

If so, I really don't consider this a long term fix as sliding the hoses on and off will sever the tape where its folded over the fitting.

If I come off as disgruntled its because I am. I just shelled out $150 for a new motor controller last week because of the UDD when it was supposed to be a turn-key solution for the Festool CT vacuums. So still have a bad taste in my mouth.

Once again I appreciate you taking time to respond here.

Oneida-Jeff · « **Reply #40 on:** May 23, 2013, 03:56 PM »

We have an upgraded, more conductive hose, metal adapter for attaching to the vacuum inlet etc. We are finalizing the components and instructions but it is a simpler and improved kit all-around.

If you need one, just sign up via the link in my other posts and we will get you taken care of.

-Jeff

Julimor · « **Reply #41 on:** May 24, 2013, 04:29 PM »

Jeff,

From reading online posts, I know that not everyone who uses the DD in conjunction with a Festool CT uses the Ultimate. Some use the Deluxe DD. Does Oneida plan on offering the same update for the Deluxe as the Ultimate?

TomGadwa1 · « **Reply #42 on:** May 25, 2013, 08:39 AM »

A $10.00 dollar bag, a $150.00 dollar controller, a $10.00 dollar bag, a $150.00 dollar controller, a $10.00 dollar bag, a $150.00 dollar controller,,,,,, etc. Hmmm! What should I do? I think I will save my money and NOT buy a dust deputy and put the money towards some bags! Also I think that having that silly looking thing on top of my really professionally designed CT36 is an insult to an excellent product! It is not that hard to change the bags out and I would rather do that than risk damage to my CT36 because I want to save some money on the bags. Bags are cheap relative to a controller circuit board replacement!

electricald · « **Reply #43 on:** June 14, 2013, 12:32 PM »

Hey everyone,

I need to weigh in on this. Shane did not say that static electricity had destroyed circuit boards. The word he used was presumably.
I have been in the electrical/electronics industry for the past 25 years and have handled thousands of circuit boards and certainly much more complicated than what is in a Festool dust extractor.
Shane, how many circuit boards are on the festool DE and with what you are expecting to be static electricity, are the boards that are being damaged examined more closely? Or is the board replaced and that's it. I am not about to say categorically that static discharge is not the culprit, but not to jump in and say it is either.

Regards,
Dan

Quote from: ccarrolladams on May 10, 2013, 01:21 AM

Peter, the issue is using any third-party device between a Festool dust extractor and a Festool.

Excessive static electricity generated by the third-party device can and have destroyed circuit boards in the tool and in the Festool dust extractor.

Shane Holland has stated several times on FOG that in cases of static damage resulting from use of the third-party devices the usual warranty might be void.

That is why I wrote the post I wrote as a warning to Festool owners. Of course the policies of Festool UL could well be different. My post only applies to NA Festool owners.

Festool USA · « **Reply #44 on:** June 14, 2013, 12:42 PM »

Dan,

I think the Oneida has all but admitted there's a problem since they are offering a free upgrade kit to help with static. The reason I said presumably was because that was the common denominator among the damaged circuit boards. They were all used with a Dust Deputy.

williaty · « **Reply #45 on:** June 14, 2013, 03:26 PM »

They said they'd ship the upgrade/repair kit right out to me. It's almost two weeks later now and no sign of it. I am not amused with Oneida at this point.

rrmccabe · « **Reply #46 on:** June 14, 2013, 09:03 PM »

I think the upgrade is coming but is not finalized. They were supposed to send me a draft of the instructions a couple weeks ago but I never did see it.

I think their sign up for upgrade deal was to help calm the storm and not that they were really ready.

jacko9 · « **Reply #47 on:** June 14, 2013, 10:19 PM »

Quote from: rrmccabe on June 14, 2013, 09:03 PM

I think the upgrade is coming but is not finalized. They were supposed to send me a draft of the instructions a couple weeks ago but I never did see it.

I think their sign up for upgrade deal was to help calm the storm and not that they were really ready.

I received my UDD upgrade kit today along with detailed instructions.

Jack

Corwin · « **Reply #48 on:** June 14, 2013, 10:31 PM »

Quote from: jacko9 on June 14, 2013, 10:19 PM

I received my UDD upgrade kit today along with detailed instructions.

Jack

What? No pictures? Must not have happened...

electricald · « **Reply #49 on:** June 14, 2013, 10:42 PM »

Hey Shane,
Well that is a fair comment. I did get this upgrade kit when I bought the DD but didn't use it. I am not 100% convinced that installing a piece of foil tape will do the trick for the whole case of the DD. I think there is a bit more to it than that. Incidentally the hose that they supplied I have been meaning to change it but I don't think Festool makes one that size. Thanks for the comment. What Oneida should have done was made the whole thing of metal.

Regards,
Dan

Quote from: Shane Holland on June 14, 2013, 12:42 PM

Dan,

I think the Oneida has all but admitted there's a problem since they are offering a free upgrade kit to help with static. The reason I said presumably was because that was the common denominator among the damaged circuit boards. They were all used with a Dust Deputy.

rrmccabe · « **Reply #50 on:** June 14, 2013, 11:15 PM »

Quote from: jacko9 on June 14, 2013, 10:19 PM

I received my UDD upgrade kit today along with detailed instructions.

Jack

The new one with a hose or just the old original update with tape?

jacko9 · « **Reply #51 on:** June 15, 2013, 08:08 PM »

Quote from: rrmccabe on June 14, 2013, 11:15 PM

Quote from: jacko9 on June 14, 2013, 10:19 PM

I received my UDD upgrade kit today along with detailed instructions.

Jack

The new one with a hose or just the old original update with tape?

I have the new kit with the black hose, etc.

Jack

rrmccabe · « **Reply #52 on:** June 15, 2013, 08:10 PM »

Well they must be moving forward then.

Timtool · « **Reply #53 on:** June 17, 2013, 07:34 AM »

i'm a bit struck by this whole thing, could someone maybe explain the reason why they use a cyclone on a CT vac?
If it's to save bags then a longlife bag is cheaper and more practical, if it's to keep the airflow high i could understand even though i can only suspect this addition makes the CT work harder because creating this cyclone action must take quite a bit of energy.
The vacs are designed to function perfectly without, so is it not a bit like fixing a problem that doesn't exist, by adding a real problem (static build up)?

rrmccabe · « **Reply #54 on:** June 17, 2013, 08:46 AM »

I don't have a long life bag so can't compare. But static issues aside (which no one planned on when they purchased it) the Ultimate Dust Deputy cost less than the long life bag, holds a lot more material and if you use the disposable bags its easier and faster to change than a bag in the vac.

The performance for me is better than my original bag because the performance doesn't drop off as the bag fills.

Course if the static issue continues there is no reason to consider one. But I am hoping Oneida has that fixed !

jacko9 · « **Reply #55 on:** June 17, 2013, 01:44 PM »

Quote from: rrmccabe on June 17, 2013, 08:46 AM

I don't have a long life bag so can't compare. But static issues aside (which no one planned on when they purchased it) the Ultimate Dust Deputy cost less than the long life bag, holds a lot more material and if you use the disposable bags its easier and faster to change than a bag in the vac.

The performance for me is better than my original bag because the performance doesn't drop off as the bag fills.

Course if the static issue continues there is no reason to consider one. But I am hoping Oneida has that fixed !

I'm assuming that the Oneida Fix will work but as mentioned above, the long life bag exposes you to the very dust your trying so hard to avoid when you have to empty that bag.

With the UDD, I just throw away the plastic bad dust and all.

Jack

electricald · « **Reply #56 on:** June 22, 2013, 10:37 PM »

Hello Tim,
I bought the UDD not to save on bags but to save on my lungs. If 90% of the sawdust or dust in general goes into the cyclone/box then doesn't that suggest less to even get to the vac and then less, potentially to the air? It is the same reason why I bought the CV 1800 Clearvue Cyclone. And it looks like I will be dealing with static on that as well (I don't have it up yet). I never thought about loading down the vac as you mentioned about using extra energy. One way to test this is to remove the hose from the cyclone and see if the noise pitch changes on the vac. If it goes lower then there is a load put on the vac. I am going to try that when I get home. Good point.
Regards,
Dan

Quote from: Timtool on June 17, 2013, 07:34 AM

i'm a bit struck by this whole thing, could someone maybe explain the reason why they use a cyclone on a CT vac?
If it's to save bags then a longlife bag is cheaper and more practical, if it's to keep the airflow high i could understand even though i can only suspect this addition makes the CT work harder because creating this cyclone action must take quite a bit of energy.
The vacs are designed to function perfectly without, so is it not a bit like fixing a problem that doesn't exist, by adding a real problem (static build up)?

ach_78 · « **Reply #57 on:** August 21, 2014, 06:30 PM »

Hey guys,

What if you were to ground the cyclone as good as you can with copper tape and so on, and yet, use non-antistatic hoses to the tool and to the vac.

Wouldn't that be the best bet to avoid any harm to your equipment ?

wow · « **Reply #58 on:** November 30, 2014, 02:56 AM »

Quote from: ach_78 on August 21, 2014, 06:30 PM

Hey guys,

What if you were to ground the cyclone as good as you can with copper tape and so on, and yet, use non-antistatic hoses to the tool and to the vac.

Wouldn't that be the best bet to avoid any harm to your equipment ?

Didn't see your question until now.

No, I don't think this would be a good idea. If you don't maintain a continuous ground you invite a static discharge to occur 'someplace'. You KNOW it will happen. You don't necessarily know WHERE it will happen. Just the fact that it DOES happen produces a high-voltage, low-current 'pulse' that isn't good for you or your equipment.

jacko9 · « **Reply #59 on:** December 13, 2014, 02:10 PM »

I'm only one data point but, I installed the free Oneida supplied grounding system on my UDD and I use the system every day on my CT22 with no issues so far and that has been over a year. I used the UDD on my CT22 for a year before that without the free Oneida supplied kit with no issues. But since I know how nasty static discharge can be I contacted Oneida and they responded pretty fast with the upgrade.

Jack