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Author Topic: Safety Topic  (Read 6769 times)

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Offline martin felder

  • Posts: 110
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #60 on: April 08, 2020, 01:40 PM »


TOH, NYWS, ATOH. are pretty much the origin of "some safety features have been removed for tv".

That video is a good example.  Here Norm says at 0:44.  that when using a router it is always good to have hearing protection and just protection.  Then, 6 seconds later he demonstrates using the router without either.  Then, right after that he said to not wear jewelry of any kind to catch on the tools, then you see him make a cut after that with a ring on. Haha

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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2417
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2020, 02:18 PM »
For anyone who wants a refresher on mitre saw safety:

https://youtu.be/FVpmjX1DjmI?t=175

Since I don't have a SawsStop feature on my Kapex, I use its hold-down clamp most of the time (with a very few exceptions in which cases an F-style clamp may be used instead -- watch video segment at 7:48).

« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 02:24 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7253
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2020, 04:41 PM »
Cut off tools, multi-tools and their big even brother the angle grinder get folks in trouble fast.

Angle grinder - yes, definitely. The other two - just minor injuries, not worth mentioning in this category.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1111
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #63 on: April 08, 2020, 04:59 PM »
The dremmel type tools do present some danger, mainly as mentioned to the eyes and face.
When set up as a mini grinder or cutter, they expel a lot of dust or fine metal swarf, and even when wearing goggles, the dust can find it’s way into any vents the goggles have.
I know of a few cases of people having fine metal or dust coating their eyes, and has ended in a hospital visit to get cleaned out.
Because the dust is fine, it sticks quite firm sometimes to eyes. Being fine dust, many operators don’t see it, so don’t worry about goggles.
The wire brush fitting for these tools can be lethal, as they’re often poor quality and break up easily, sending metal strands flying around.

Online SRSemenza

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  • Posts: 9535
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2020, 12:59 AM »
Cut off tools, multi-tools and their big even brother the angle grinder get folks in trouble fast.

Angle grinder - yes, definitely. The other two - just minor injuries, not worth mentioning in this category.

I don't know about that. Put one of the circular type blades on a multi tool and you better watch your hand placement. Even with the little plastic edge guard.


Seth

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3358
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Safety Topic; the little voice
« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2020, 05:28 AM »
My wife is a fantastic cook but has terrible knife skills and has contributed her blood to a few meals. She lets her hands get in the path the knife would take if it slipped or glanced off the object being cut. I have suffered a few wounds from screw drivers, chisels, and pocket knives that slipped and encountered my gnarly hands. Careless, stupid, yes, but common injuries.

I’ve learned to think “what could go wrong here?” before picking up a chisel, knife , turning on a saw etc. I also listen to that little voice that says “this doesn’t feel safe”. I’ve learned to walk away and come up with a safe way to get the job done. I’ve found this little voice is harder to hear when I’m in a hurry and when I’m tired.

I still screw up, but when I do, I add a mental note to my “preflight check list”.

Oh! I forgot to say that when I come up with a safe way to do a difficult operation, especially something I rarely do, I take pictures of the setup.
Birdhunter

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2417
Re: Safety Topic (Not everything you see in a magazine is safe)
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2020, 03:54 PM »
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 03:57 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1270
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2020, 09:53 PM »
I never use push sticks on my table saw. They don't give the kind of control a push block or push shoe does. Push shoes can be easily shop made (examples can be seen in the school shop image) or bought:


define what the difference between push stick and push shoe is?  I think people use them interchangeably?

Push Stick-Push Shoe

As it says, push stick is a general term for all of these.

The wikipedia article should have been titled Push_Device but it would get a lot less hit  [tongue]
Mario

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2417
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #68 on: April 18, 2020, 02:25 PM »
Another shop safety reminder: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/kamloops-student-sues-teacher-school-district-after-losing-fingers-in-shop-class-mishap/ar-BB12PV38?ocid=mailsignout


I wish this kind of technology would be adopted by band saw manufacturers:

How it works:
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 04:30 PM by ChuckM »

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2417
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2020, 05:44 PM »
That "backtracking" really made me cringe:

https://youtu.be/ohyMRATOt5U?t=387

Online DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1279
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2020, 06:43 PM »
Safety system you shove down your pants...

Offline notenoughcash

  • Posts: 90
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #71 on: April 27, 2020, 11:52 AM »
biggest safety tango uniform i ever witnessed was when i told my brother to do a simple crosscut on a bit of 1x2 a year or so ago.

he go it on the mitre saw and lined it up fine.  then he put his left hand by his side, right hand on the handle, blade on the wood, no holdown clamp and fired the old girl up.  i have a sliding one so if this went wrong he would have ended up fairly winded.  thankfully it didin't go wrong but he hasnt been allowed to use the mitre saw again. 

just goes to show the saying is true.

dont be scared of the tool or the tool will bite you.

i also think one of the biggest safety violations if beeng scared of it.  a very healty repect by all means but beeing scared is when you get things going wrong becuse you are to busy worrying about what can go wrong so you loose consentration.

i also, in light of what others have said, have notices wandel and john heitz using table saws without riving knifes or blade guardes.

when i get a table saw the riving knife and the guard is staying firmly on the saw, other than when trenching, and if i can, i will use a router for that.
turns out that woodworking is 1% making things you'll use, 4% making bespoke high end firewood, 15% cleaning, and 80% looking for the bl**dy thing you just put down

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3358
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #72 on: April 27, 2020, 01:13 PM »
I agree one should not frightened of a tool. But, I think being wary of a tool is smart. When I get antsy about a cut on a table saw or any other tool, I walk away and consider alternatives. I can usually come up with a workaround that doesn’t raise my hackles.
Birdhunter


Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1111
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #74 on: May 12, 2020, 04:51 AM »
Just an update on using two clamps simultaneously on the Kapex 120.
I have purposely carried on using two clamps whilst cutting long lengths of flat square hardwood only. Mainly because of this thread and what other users have written.
There has been no issues or kick back, even one of my employees has adopted the same method, without issues.
We agreed this should only be tried with completely flat stock.

Ironically, the other day, I needed to trim the lengths on some walnut beads and trims. Some had to be mitred also, so the axillary fences were removed when cutting some angles. 
The larger pieces were clamped, and the small pieces held by my left hand.

Near the end of finishing, I had kick back, the usual sickening bang, followed by the hope that the saw isn’t damaged.

I checked the blade guard and surrounding area, and apart from a piece of walnut loose up in the guard, all seemed fine.
I carried on, and noticed the extraction was not as good as usual.
When I finished, I noticed a hole about 8-9mm in the angled dust port. A piece of walnut obviously hit it directly.

I have done a temporary repair with black silicone, whilst waiting for a replacement to arrive.
Although as I mentioned a few times on here, I look after my tools, I don’t baby them but, was quite upset that the saw took a bit of damage but, thankful it wasn’t a lot worse.

So, the next day, it was back to cutting flat hardwood with two clamps, all good.
Make of it what you will 😉

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2417
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2020, 09:46 AM »
Snip.
The larger pieces were clamped, and the small pieces held by my left hand.

Near the end of finishing, I had kick back, the usual sickening bang, followed by the hope that the saw isn’t damaged.

So, the next day, it was back to cutting flat hardwood with two clamps, all good.
Make of it what you will 😉

If my understanding of your description is correct that you were holding one end with a clamp (on the right) and the other with your hand (on the left), then the risk of kickback happening was similar to that of holding the piece with both clamps on either side of the blade, which is your usual approach.

It is not much different from holding one end of a work (say on the left with a clamp or hand), AND using a fixed stop block on the other end (i.e., on the right side of the blade), a practice that increases the risk of launching pieces across the shop. While it is less common to see both clamps used at the same time, the use of fixed stop block as described above is a "mistake" made by many, including magazines.

We're talking about risk here. Using only one clamp on one side will significantly reduce or eliminate the chances of kickback on the mitre saw. 

While on the mitre saws, I came across a DIY kind of video by a couple. He held an angled piece with his bare hand, trying to trim it slightly smaller. Good luck to those DIY-ers who follow their channel, if they aren't aware of the injury risks.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 10:05 AM by ChuckM »

Online SRSemenza

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  • Posts: 9535
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #76 on: May 12, 2020, 09:54 AM »
 @Jiggy Joiner

            Was this kick back of the saw head or did a small off cut get picked up by the blade?


Seth

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1111
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #77 on: May 12, 2020, 04:24 PM »
@ChuckM no Chuck, when I cut the beads, the larger pieces were clamped on the left only.
When cutting the smaller stuff, when the bang occurred, it was secured by my left hand only, no clamp left or right.
I would have used the clamp on the smaller stuff but, some was moulded and the clamp wouldn’t sit right with it. Just bad luck I guess but, again I was fairly tired.

@SRSemenza Too be honest Seth, I’m not 100% sure, as some off-cuts were longer than others.
Could have been a small off-cut fired upwards? I checked the saw again, and luckily nothing else appears to be damaged.

Offline Vondawg

  • Posts: 384
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #78 on: May 13, 2020, 07:48 AM »
One of my favorite features on the 120 is the ability to slide the fence(s) right up to the blade for that zero clearance cut, and keep those small pieces where you want them
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3358
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #79 on: May 13, 2020, 03:44 PM »
Has anyone come up with a way to clamp small pieces on the Kapex? Pieces that are too short to go under the standard clamp. I just don’t like holding down a piece with my hands.
Birdhunter

Offline Peter Durand

  • Posts: 208
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #80 on: May 13, 2020, 04:38 PM »
Has anyone come up with a way to clamp small pieces on the Kapex? Pieces that are too short to go under the standard clamp. I just don’t like holding down a piece with my hands.

Check out the FastCap stick.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2417
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #81 on: May 13, 2020, 05:08 PM »
I have the Fastcap finger-saving stick, too. Highly recommended. It can be used on the mitre saw and table saw (cross-cut sled). But you can also modify the bridge block to work like the Fastcap product. Simply replace the strip on the block with a beam (say, 1" x 2" x 14" - 16"), and adhere some friction pad on the end of the beam. Don't become a statistic (6,800 estimated/projected mitre saws injuries a year in the US alone).
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 05:17 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1111
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #82 on: May 13, 2020, 10:17 PM »
If I have a lot of moulded pieces to cut, I make up a reverse profile block, that sits over the top, and is then clamped. In this case there were only handful, and a bridge wouldn’t sit right on them. I also have a few small push sticks, which most importantly save fingers but, will not remove the risk of off cuts projecting themselves.

I always use the auxiliary fences where possible, along with oak zero tolerance facings

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1111
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #83 on: July 15, 2020, 05:06 AM »
An update on using two clamps simultaneously. This is only done with larger dimension, and long lengths of hardwoods.

Always make sure the timber is flat and true, and any supports are the exact same height as each other, and the saw base.
Once the timber is lined up for cutting, both clamps are used, and recently the ends of timber has been clamped also. Cuts are made pulling the cutting head fully back and down, or as far down as the timber width will allow. The blade is always sharp, I keep one aside just for this purpose.

Switch on, and push steadily forward until the cut is complete, switch off, wait for blade to stop, raise cutting head. For real dense hardwoods, the cut is done with a few steady passes.

This works for us, and so far, I cannot find a reason not to continue.
I wouldn’t dream of doing this with warped, twisted, bent or pressure treated timber. If we have really large dimension timber, we use the large radial arm saw, which is in constant use, so making use of the Kapex suits.
I honestly have lost count of how many cuts have been made this way but, it’s a lot, certainly enough to make a conclusion.

Offline phase3

  • Posts: 19
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #84 on: July 24, 2020, 10:15 PM »
I think it is  important to know how and why accidents happen. I read an article that mentioned almost 80% of accidents on the table saw happen when people reach around the blade to grab a part before it has completely cleared the blade resulting in a kickback drawing that hand back into the blade.

Because of that article I never use a table saw without a good push stick and some sort of out feed table.

I think the more we know about how accidents happen the more likely it is we will avoid them.

This taught me a lesson. Thank you. Most of my mistakes these days are from rushing while fatigued, but this one I would have done just from bad habit, so FWIW this thread helped me for whenever I will next use a table saw.
I'm not using a table saw these days, as the track does nearly everything for me except rip a piece from something slim, but I'm old now and everyone in my memory would grab the part from the table saw at around the time it was clearing the blade. I bet I did it too, but I just can't remember. The move looked so graceful -- Run the piece through, maybe with a safety push stick, but then reach over and give it a little pull from the other side which guides it straight out, and then the piece is in your hand. All the way back to the custom cabinetry shop I worked at in the 1980's, all the workers were thinking about safety, but my (admittedly poor) memory has everyone doing this mistake.

Here's one of my recent mistakes. I was cutting the triangles out of a stair stringer with my TS 55 and the short 800mm track.
Mistake #1:
I prioritized what I thought would be accuracy above what I knew wasn't the safest setup. I wanted to cut against all the lines with the track edge, so in one direction I was plunging the saw in the middle of the 2x12, then driving it toward the edge.
Mistake #2:
I was exhausted but I wanted to finish that riser before ending the day. It's the equivalent of "I bet I can get in one more ski run".
Mistake #3, the real "Oh wow I'm lucky that's as bad as it got":
On the last of the cuts, I plunged and the blade wasn't very close to the vertex of where the tread & riser meet. Instead of leaving that for the jig saw work later, I BACKED UP THE TS 55. Total no-no -- The riving knife wasn't in the groove yet because I'd just finished the plunge. The blade kicked the saw backward, cutting way past the vertex before the saw rode up out of the board and I got it shut off. Just stupidity on my part. I didn't get hurt, so I was lucky for that. Our building code doesn't allow for over-cuts in stair stringers, and that was my last tread/riser cutout to do, so the whole 12 foot 2x12 was now a scrap piece.

On my replacement stringer board, I was well rested and hydrated, I wasn't rushing myself, I drove the saw toward the piece for both the riser and tread cuts, and I didn't bother getting too close to the vertex with the circular saw. The jig saw does a stellar job anyway. When I'm tired I don't recognize when I'm not making good decisions.