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Author Topic: Safety Topic  (Read 6749 times)

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Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3355
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Safety Topic
« on: April 04, 2020, 03:03 PM »
I think a separate topic should be "Safety Tips".

I've been doing woodworking for many years and have learned a lot of safety lessons, but would love to learn from others.
Birdhunter

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Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1111
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2020, 03:54 PM »
I think a separate topic should be "Safety Tips".

I've been doing woodworking for many years and have learned a lot of safety lessons, but would love to learn from others.

Yes I also agree, it would make good sense to have such topics on a forum such as this, and if it helps people to be more aware and disciplined to stay safe, it can only be a good thing.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3355
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2020, 09:10 PM »
How do I get Festool to look at this?
Birdhunter

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 9514
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2020, 12:51 AM »
How do I get Festool to look at this?

I'm looking. I can make sure Festool will see it.

Seth

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 844
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2020, 04:38 AM »
This is a great idea!
I would love to see users experience as well as recommendations from Festool and alike.
May I suggest a grouping by machine type? And a pinned topic?
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3355
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2020, 06:24 AM »
I think I should have specified a new “Board” within the FOG site.
Birdhunter

Offline Vondawg

  • Posts: 382
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2020, 07:43 AM »
I could see this going down a rabbit hole if not planned right. Like a worry wart mother or being afraid of bungee cords .....as if  grown people can’t figure obvious things out
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 685
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2020, 09:33 AM »
Yeah might be just a big pile of unread posts. I know it would take maintenance but our work puts out a weekly safety tip usually related to a real life incident. Maybe a weekly of monthly "sticky"?

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 9514
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2020, 10:26 AM »
Keep the ideas and thoughts on it coming. No promises, but the idea is good.

Seth

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3355
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2020, 10:55 AM »
.....as if  grown people can’t figure obvious things out

I’m certainly grown at 76 and I’ve been doing woodworking for over 40 years. I’m still learning tricks to reduce the possibility of an injury. I’ve started young friends in this craft and see them doing dangerous things out of inexperience. I’ve been “dinged” by accidents in retrospect seem incredibly obvious.

There is an immense volume of wisdom on this forum. Somehow, there must be a way to share this wisdom.

If one hand, one eye is saved, this would be a worthwhile exercise.
Birdhunter

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1261
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2020, 11:30 AM »
Creating a separate discussion board just makes it easy for people to completely ignore it, just like other safety instructions in life.

The good thing of bits on safety popping up in the main boards is people are more likely to see them.


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2396
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2020, 11:52 AM »
.....as if  grown people can’t figure obvious things out

If one hand, one eye is saved, this would be a worthwhile exercise.
If people who suffered, say, a tablesaw injury, could really figure obvious things out, the injury wouldn't have happened in the first place.
 
In case anyone wonders if woodworking accidents really happen...the OSHA website has them documented with details...when, what how/why. They happen to hobbyists, trade people, young and old, male (more) and female, day and night.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 11:54 AM by ChuckM »

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 844
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2020, 12:50 PM »
Soo.. what did I do today, yes - shredded a millimetre thick piece of skin of the tip of my pinky about a half a centimetre wide.

I finally found time to start dismantling my newly bought Metabo Secanta saw for some light restoration. In the process I forgot to remove the blade. Well, that’s a quick job, no gloves and a 1/4” ratchet should do.. but holding the blade with the other naked hand.
One tooth on the sharp blade was enough.
Not a mess of blood, but a very sour pinky..

The right way: leather gloves on, block the blade with a piece of wood and it went off smoothly. I knew the right way, but didn’t bother to find the gloves or piece of wood.
No big thing, but I could have cut myself badly even with the only force of my other hand. Thankfully I did hold the blade in a manner that my palm was out of harms way.

Stupid.. [mad]
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Vondawg

  • Posts: 382
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2020, 01:07 PM »
@Birdhunter yes you’re right, there must be someway...that last line of mine didn’t come off right..guess being in your boat, same age, years woodworking/professionally licensed, etc. I roll my eyes when hearing certain things but must remember to move on and that somebody can learn from it ....the learning never stops.
Btw...I’ve been thinking the same things about all the tools.
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1261
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2020, 02:25 PM »
.....as if  grown people can’t figure obvious things out

I’m certainly grown at 76 and I’ve been doing woodworking for over 40 years. I’m still learning tricks to reduce the possibility of an injury. I’ve started young friends in this craft and see them doing dangerous things out of inexperience. I’ve been “dinged” by accidents in retrospect seem incredibly obvious.

There is an immense volume of wisdom on this forum. Somehow, there must be a way to share this wisdom.

If one hand, one eye is saved, this would be a worthwhile exercise.

A lot of this is people don't see things that are "the way I/we have always done it" as dangerous. It's built into us to not see the tool or practice as dangerous as it is, if you were looking at at as a new creation.  This is why it's so hard to get people to change.  Lots of tools are very dangerous, but they haven't changed in 100 years, so no one sees a reason to change or uses some statement like "somehow we all survived" as a cover for what they are doing, ignoring not everyone survived.

PPE stuff is just this. Getting folks to wear safety gear is hard when for generations no one did it. Look at getting people to want dust collection, lots of folks just don't get it. Many people take pride in getting covered in dust. A lot of the changes will take a generation or 2. Always does. Look at things like litter and disposal of stuff. People under 40 would never think of tossing it along the road, pouring something down the drain.  It took a couple generations to get the mindsets to change.

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 446
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2020, 02:57 PM »
I think it is  important to know how and why accidents happen. I read an article that mentioned almost 80% of accidents on the table saw happen when people reach around the blade to grab a part before it has completely cleared the blade resulting in a kickback drawing that hand back into the blade.

Because of that article I never use a table saw without a good push stick and some sort of out feed table.

I think the more we know about how accidents happen the more likely it is we will avoid them.



Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3355
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2020, 05:31 PM »
A very intelligent young friend whom I got started in woodworking asked my wife and me to his house for a glass of wine and to see his new project. The four of us went into the garage where his Craftsman saw was set up.

My first question was where is the blade guard? He pointed to a shelf. His wife asked what is a blade guard?

I said it keeps your fingers out of the saw blade. She looked (glared) at her. Husband and said put it back on!

His explanation was that the blade guard was inconvenient.
Birdhunter

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 844
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2020, 05:52 PM »
The blade guard on a table saw is to common to not to see AT ALL in videos, photos etc.
I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but it’s rare species  [blink]
I have left my guard off on my old table saw too often, but my CS 50 is supposed to have it fixed whenever in use. There might be cuts that need it off, but then the body and hands are far far off the blade (ie: splitting long narrow awkward crown mouldings that catches the guard. But then I can feed with two persons, one at front and the second pulling from behind at the end of cut.

More scary are a sight I’ve seen on building sites; miter saws with the entire guard removed  [scared]. They usually say it hangs up.. yes, and from my experience they do so if the saw is not cleaned and serviced regularly. The return spring and sawdust build up will limit the blade guard retraction after a while. A simple good clean and dust removal usually fix this. Solution on a work site: Remove it! [eek]
I believe that you guys in here do service and not removal.. [big grin]
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3355
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2020, 08:59 PM »
I have a long scab on my left forearm. I was cutting a 22.5 degree bevel when the blade guard exploded. The SawStop blade guard is a two piece affair on each side. I apparently pushed the drop down portion against the saw blade and pieces flew everywhere. I make a practice of always standing well off to the side of the saw blade so only a piece of the flying plastic hit me. I had a Magswitch featherboard against the wood so that didn’t go but a few inches.

I replaced the damaged blade guard. I now carefully check the blade guard so it is completely clear of the saw blade.

Over 40 years of woodworking and still shedding blood. Obvious mistake? Yes, in retrospect.
Birdhunter

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2396
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2020, 09:13 PM »
If SawStop knew about your incident, it might look into ways to improve their guards, either in material or in design (e.g., such that the moveable piece (I call it a fin) could ride in some kind of slot so it couldn't be pushed to touch a blade so easily). My fin on the fence side had touched the spinning blade but it didn't explode when my push shoe passed through between the fence and the blade guard. Your story is educational.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1910
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2020, 04:34 AM »
"His explanation was that the blade guard was inconvenient."

If only he could experience a week of 9-1/2 fingers then he might get a taste of what inconvenience is.

I have three 9 fingered friends who would like to tell him to use that guard.

As far as taking pride in being covered in dust at the end of the day. I never looked at it like that but I did have a job where I was covered in dust. It was more of a nuisance than a badge of honor. I was working on construction of a nuclear power plant as a pipefitter. Spent many a 10 hour day crawling around inside the reactor building running pipe, grinding J bevels for welds, installing pipe supports, etc. Looking back the place was filthy, even though they had people cleaning constantly. I would get two 4" air grinders and a stack of 12 or more grinding wheels at the beginning of the shift and most days they would all be gone by the end of the shift. You don't think that makes a mess try wearing out even one wheel and see what it's like. Now put over 100 people inside the same closed space with minimal ventilation and see how much swarf you take home with you. My clothes were covered with the grit and swarf from the steel plus the dust and debris from crawling around in the workspace. Towards the end of the job when the majority of the pipe and conduit and everything else was installed there were very few places where you could even stand up, that's how crammed it is inside there. My ears and nose would be filled with black grit and no doubt some of the bits of carbon or stainless steel I had been grinding on that day. In the 70s and 80s no one was handing out disposable ear plugs or dust masks to the thousands doing this type of work. On this one project alone we had over 1000 pipefitters welding and grinding. Add to that all the other trades and you can begin to envision the mess we worked in every day. When you blow your nose and nothing but black gunk comes out you have to think this can't be good.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Online GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 1174
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2020, 10:47 AM »
Adam Savage of MythBusters fame recently had an accident in the shop with his lathe: .
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

TS55, CT26, RO150, CXS, ETS 150/3, ETS EC 150/5, MFT/3, TS75, DF500, DTS400, OF1400, CT SYS

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1261
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2020, 11:00 AM »
I think Adam needs to have a talk about fire safety/fire hazard.  A fire gets started in there, it's going up fast and will he be able to get out in time, or anyone find him. 

A workshop full of stuff, and stuff hanging on the ceiling/walls/etc looks fun, but it's not safe.  Definitely not a space you want to be running machines and such in.

Online GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 1174
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2020, 11:08 AM »
That's a good point about fire safety.  His previous video gave a bit of a tour of his "cave" and some of its contents: https://youtu.be/slvJzIJ_YXM?t=164.  Starts at the 2:44 mark.

Inquiring Minds Want to Know

TS55, CT26, RO150, CXS, ETS 150/3, ETS EC 150/5, MFT/3, TS75, DF500, DTS400, OF1400, CT SYS

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2396
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2020, 11:11 AM »
The video reminds me of the owner of woodgears.ca who had a table saw finger accident. Before that, he did not put enough emphasis on safety precaution in his videos. But the irony is with another video content producer who encountered a finger injury on his tablesaw shortly before his SawStop arrived. However, kudos to these people who did not try to cover their injuries, but shared them with their audience regardless of how they felt about safety in the past before the accidents hit.

All the local high school shops I've visited are equipped with the SawStop...no exceptions. Of course, all other machines they have, the mitre saws, the jointers, the band saws, etc. are equally dangerous tools for those teen students. I have great respects for the teachers since every day, they have a job to ensure the safety of their kids in a challenging environment: It's no easy task to manage teens in a classroom, let alone in a shop that is full of equipment that could seriously maim. 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 11:33 AM by ChuckM »

Online GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 1174
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2020, 11:22 AM »
Matthias Wandel covered some "beginner" table saw mistakes that more experienced users might not even think about: .

He also put up an article about it on his website: https://woodgears.ca/table_saw/mistakes.html.

Inquiring Minds Want to Know

TS55, CT26, RO150, CXS, ETS 150/3, ETS EC 150/5, MFT/3, TS75, DF500, DTS400, OF1400, CT SYS

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2396
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2020, 11:31 AM »
I never use push sticks on my table saw. They don't give the kind of control a push block or push shoe does. Push shoes can be easily shop made (examples can be seen in the school shop image) or bought:

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/power-tool-accessories/safety/push-sticks-and-blocks/30067-dual-tread-push-stick

I have several fixed and adjustable push shoes made to cater for different ripping widths. Total control every time.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 11:34 AM by ChuckM »

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1261
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2020, 11:43 AM »
I never use push sticks on my table saw. They don't give the kind of control a push block or push shoe does. Push shoes can be easily shop made (examples can be seen in the school shop image) or bought:


define what the difference between push stick and push shoe is?  I think people use them interchangeably?

Push Stick-Push Shoe

As it says, push stick is a general term for all of these.


Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7237
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2020, 12:00 PM »
I think most people who got an accident knew perfectly well what they were doing and should have done to keep it safe. It's not rocket science.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1261
Re: Safety Topic
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2020, 12:28 PM »
I think most people who got an accident knew perfectly well what they were doing and should have done to keep it safe. It's not rocket science.

I would assume people in your part of the world act the same way.  When they mess up/do something stupid, it's alway someone else's fault, or a bad product, not them.  Time to go get a lawyer.