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Author Topic: OH...so many quesions Let me start with the Trion PS 300 EQ  (Read 7726 times)

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Offline Steve R

  • Posts: 919
Okay to start off I have to say that before I found and tried Festool products...I thought I had good tools. The saving grace is that some people that read Crag's list seem to not know about Festool and want to buy any brand functioning tools so I can support my addiction Festool.

I'm even hesitant to post my comments as the Festool has been soooooo....well engineered and built that I find it amazing that I can even find room for improvement.

I only have about 7 Festools tools…and many accessories. 

My latest purchase was a Trion PS 300 EQ and yes again found that tools could make life Better!!!

I do have a combination of feedback, questions and suggestions.

Let me just list them in no order:

Every Festool blade for the 300 EQs , should include one splinter guard.
 
How can you charge $1.30 - $0.75 for a splinter guard that is just piece of injection plastic? I know the plastic molding and manufacturing industry and your price seems to have VERY large profit margin.

On the topic, why would you not include 20 or more splinter guards with the purchase of the saw?

Okay I might need to define that I look at the Systainer system as a very close part of tool, as the way I work is on site not a permanent workshop.

The Systainer that comes with the Jig, has triangle space in the top right area of the Sys. Why is that area not purposed to hold both splinter guards and blades?  Real I have to ask..... with a jig saw, that is used on site and so I'm going to need to have many types and lengths of blades with the saw. I find it a bit odd that you don't think that would be a need.

Of course I don't want to spend more money than I have to...but if you had a package that would include the tool, parallel edge guide, circle cutter, guide stop, and a Systainer for blades/consumable media as one purchase/package ...that would allow me one line item to depreciate that would make life simpler.

I also ask as a Festool addict.  Why don't you list a kit with the parallel edge guide, circle cutter, guide stop, and a Systainer for blades/consumable media and storage for the before mentioned accessories?
 
Sorry if I have been too bold with my comments.

Cheers,

Steve
"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)

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Offline RL

  • Posts: 3040
Re: OH...so many quesions Let me start with the Trion PS 300 EQ
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2010, 03:16 PM »
First, a hearty [welcome] to the FOG.

Second, I don't have a Festool jig-saw so I cannot answer your specific Trion-related questions. However, the Carvex (new Festool jig-saw) is due to arrive in North America in 2011 and it is available in Europe as a package containing all the accessories of which you speak. Here is a link to the package.

http://www.festool.co.uk/Products/Pages/Product-Detail.aspx?pid=561494&name=Pendulum-jigsaw-CARVEX-PSB-400-EBQ-Set-GB-240V

Third, the much-debated issue of Festool's pricing is a bit of a black box and sometimes it appears irrational even though the company will surely have given it much thought. Maybe the higher profit margin on some accessories is partly subsidizing a lower profit margin on other products?


Offline Festool USA

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Re: OH...so many quesions Let me start with the Trion PS 300 EQ
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2010, 03:55 PM »
Steve,

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for your feedback and suggestions as well as the accolades.

Regarding the inclusion of splinterguards with the blades, there could be several explanations for why that's not done.   It could be that since our blades are compatible with any jigsaw that uses T-shank blades, it could cause confusion or the opposite reaction (why am I paying for something I won't use) from customers who buy our blades but don't have our jigsaw. There are also folks who use our jigsaw and don't necessarily care about the cut being splinter and chip free. Again, the argument from them would be that they are paying for something they wouldn't use. But, to be honest, I don't know why they are included with blades. What I can say is that generally things are done for a good reason. However, I will pass along your comments to our product management team.

Regarding the lack of blade storage in systainers, that's why we have sortainers... [big grin] But, seriously, while I think Festool does a good job of being methodical with product design, sometimes there's room for improvement. In my opinion, we do address issues by evolving our products over time based largely on customer feedback. The most recent example that I can think of is the "attic" on top of the new T-drill systainers for bit and screw storage.

Lastly, always feel free to express your thoughts, opinions or criticism here on the forum. Our open interaction with our customers helps us become a better company and offer better products in the end.

Thanks,
Shane Holland
Festool USA
« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 03:57 PM by Shane Holland »

Offline Steve R

  • Posts: 919
Re: OH...so many quesions Let me start with the Trion PS 300 EQ
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2010, 04:15 PM »
Thanks for the link to the GB CARVEX PS 400 info.  I bought the PS 300 for a cabinet job and love it for what it can do. In less than 60 inches of cuts I did find a few limitations that the Festool has.

The limits are:
Hard to see the blade when doing tight cuts.
The clear plastic cover is very short and hard to see into
Extraction is a bit less than expected BUT STILL BETTER THAN ANY OTHER JIG I HAVE SEEN.
The parallel guide would not fit the PS 300 - the Store employees couldn't make it fit either.
Circle cutting tool is not easy to set to the size you need... so I never used it.

Upon reviewing the CARVEX PS 400 information.  They have solved all of them and more!
  • larger clear shield that just slides up out of the way
  • if you go with the corded model it allows the cord to be ti
  • Cordless version wth 18 V battery
  • LED constant/strobe light built in
  • Better extraction of dust  
  • circle cutter with built in tape measure
  • below the table mount with the Compact module system that mounts to a table and lest you run media with two hands to do scroll work
  • replaceable tables  for soooooo many things.....that I can't list here

I have to say that buying a PS 300 when the PS 400 is a 2011 options just doesn't make a good business move. I have returned my 300 and put the money on the  400.  As much as I would like to have it soon.... the new one is worth the wait and throwing out a Dewalt (gap) tool when it comes.

Over the last year my partner in work and I have invested over $15,0000 in Festools... and now are finding we spent full price for product that was being replaced with better stuff in the next few weeks/months. We were used to normal product updates from junk tools..but to spend the money for a Festool and not be told of options!!!!! Just a few weeks months latter.... Yea bought a CT 22 in late Sept... NO discount..and then found out days later the CT26 came out....

Okay maybe I'm bad as I didn't know about this product but I tried to learn from the staff of the store selling the product... so ...  if the Rockler staff can't tell you how the tool even works...and asks me to explain the difference between abrasives... How can I make a good business choice??

Festool is not sold many places so I then I go to the closes store and the website doesn't say (non knowledgeable staff works here)... Hmmmm...  I have to say I don't think Rockler in the MPLS, MN metro area is helping Festool sell product.

It was obvious that once we got our hand on a Festool Catalog we knew more than the the Rockler staff/sales people.

When we had to buy a second CT 22 24 days before the new CT26 was officially offered for sale... really hurt...  Construction is a second career , my first was a executive at a large retailer that has a yellow price tag....    Selling having to buy a CT 22 at full price... and then offer a better product days later....  leaves a bad taste in my mouth...

Okay we could check the web every minute of the day...but that doesn't fit getting the work done.

When we found that "Woodcraft in Bloomington, MN" carried Festools tools and we stopped in.....   WOW we found sales people that really use the tools and know the full product line. They have set us straight on a lot of things.  
Rant over....

Steve [sad]


« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 06:55 PM by Steve R »
"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)

Offline Festool USA

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    • Festool USA
Re: OH...so many quesions Let me start with the Trion PS 300 EQ
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2010, 04:50 PM »
Steve,

I understand your frustration about buying a CT 22 only to learn that there is a new model shortly thereafter. I want to make sure your frustration is directly properly. We announced the CT 26 to our dealers on June 30th.  It was reiterated in multiple communications after the date and prior to their launch.

Subscribers to our email newsletter were informed of the CT 26/36 in August.

Hopefully you will find better service from your new dealer of choice. I'm sorry that you had a negative experience with your first dealer.

Shane

PS - While we expect the launch of the PS 400 Carvex in 2011, no official launch date has been announced and there is no intention to discontinue the PS 300 models.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 05:09 PM by Shane Holland »

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4184
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: OH...so many quesions Let me start with the Trion PS 300 EQ
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2010, 07:04 PM »
Thanks for the link to the GB CARVEX PS 400 info.  I bought the PS 300 for a cabinet job and love it for what it can do. In less than 60 inches of cuts I did find a few limitations that the Festool has.

The limits are:
Hard to see the blade when doing tight cuts.
The clear plastic cover is very short and hard to see into
Extraction is a bit less than expected BUT STILL BETTER THAN ANY OTHER JIG I HAVE SEEN.
The parallel guide would not fit the PS 300 - the Store employees couldn't make it fit either.
Circle cutting tool is not easy to set to the size you need... so I never used it.

Upon reviewing the CARVEX PS 400 information.  They have solved all of them and more!
  • larger clear shield that just slides up out of the way
  • if you go with the corded model it allows the cord to be ti
  • Cordless version wth 18 V battery
  • LED constant/strobe light built in
  • Better extraction of dust 
  • circle cutter with built in tape measure
  • below the table mount with the Compact module system that mounts to a table and lest you run media with two hands to do scroll work
  • replaceable tables  for soooooo many things.....that I can't list here

I have to say that buying a PS 300 when the PS 400 is a 2011 options just doesn't make a good business move. I have returned my 300 and put the money on the  400.  As much as I would like to have it soon.... the new one is worth the wait and throwing out a Dewalt (gap) tool when it comes.

Over the last year my partner in work and I have invested over $15,0000 in Festools... and now are finding we spent full price for product that was being replaced with better stuff in the next few weeks/months. We were used to normal product updates from junk tools..but to spend the money for a Festool and not be told of options!!!!! Just a few weeks months latter.... Yea bought a CT 22 in late Sept... NO discount..and then found out days later the CT26 came out....

Okay maybe I'm bad as I didn't know about this product but I tried to learn from the staff of the store selling the product... so ...  if the Rockler staff can't tell you how the tool even works...and asks me to explain the difference between abrasives... How can I make a good business choice??

Festool is not sold many places so I then I go to the closes store and the website doesn't say (non knowledgeable staff works here)... Hmmmm...  I have to say I don't think Rockler in the MPLS, MN metro area is helping Festool sell product.

It was obvious that once we got our hand on a Festool Catalog we knew more than the the Rockler staff/sales people.

When we had to buy a second CT 22 4 days before the new CT26 was officially offered for sale... really hurt...  Construction is a second career , my first was a executive at a large retailer that has a yellow price tag....    Selling having to buy a CT 22 at full price... and then offer a better product days later....  leaves a bad taste in my mouth...

Okay we could check the web every minute of the day...but that doesn't fit getting the work done.

When we found that "Woodcraft in Bloomington, MN" carried Festools tools and we stopped in.....   WOW we found sales people that really use the tools and know the full product line. They have set us straight on a lot of things. 


Oh well .... why not lower the profit margin of the construction trade even more...to sell stock that is outdated... but in the pipe line .... 

Rant over....

Steve [sad]




How did my wife get in here? [big grin]

You should keep up on stuff and buy tools from a dealer that pays attention.

And good luck on the waiting game, I have come to the conclusion that all the waiting is not worth it, just get the current tool, use it and upgrade when you can.


Offline Wood_Junkie

  • Posts: 1313
Re: OH...so many quesions Let me start with the Trion PS 300 EQ
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2010, 08:40 PM »
How did my wife get in here? [big grin]

 [eek]     [scared]            

That's slammin' funny.

Offline Steve R

  • Posts: 919
Re: OH...so many quesions Let me start with the Trion PS 300 EQ
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2010, 07:51 PM »

How did my wife get in here? [big grin]

You should keep up on stuff and buy tools from a dealer that pays attention.

And good luck on the waiting game, I have come to the conclusion that all the waiting is not worth it, just get the current tool, use it and upgrade when you can.


Please explain your Wife Comment?  ???I would like to think it was to be humorous... [big grin] I just don't get it. If  you meant to be offensive please be more direct >:(.   

Yea keeping up on stuff...good idea but when you go into a "Festool approved retailer" that says to the consumer that the retailer has gone through some qualification and knows the product and is not just a place with a cash register. When they tell you something you want to believe they are telling you the truth. I can walk into any factory dealer/service for my car and they know the the product.  If Festool just wants un-educated people to sell this stuff.... put it in the Home Improvement stores or at Target. But if Festool is going to be selective where they allow the product to be sold  then they need to make sure those places know the product or tell you from the start this dealer doesn't know S@#* about our tools... but if you go to this "website" you can get the information and support you need. Then just pick it up from the this location. ....  or.... Why not just buy over the web direct from Festool? They control the price anyway.

We have to assume that you have better dealers in your area.....

We will play the waiting game. Why? Because we do have very good jig saw but wanted the best...and the best is going to come out some times in 2011...fine with us!

Got to say you left me with a soft warm fuzzy feeling..... [thanks]






"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4184
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: OH...so many quesions Let me start with the Trion PS 300 EQ
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2010, 08:53 PM »

How did my wife get in here? [big grin]

You should keep up on stuff and buy tools from a dealer that pays attention.

And good luck on the waiting game, I have come to the conclusion that all the waiting is not worth it, just get the current tool, use it and upgrade when you can.


Please explain your Wife Comment?  ???I would like to think it was to be humorous... [big grin] I just don't get it. If  you meant to be offensive please be more direct >:(.   

Yea keeping up on stuff...good idea but when you go into a "Festool approved retailer" that says to the consumer that the retailer has gone through some qualification and knows the product and is not just a place with a cash register. When they tell you something you want to believe they are telling you the truth. I can walk into any factory dealer/service for my car and they know the the product.  If Festool just wants un-educated people to sell this stuff.... put it in the Home Improvement stores or at Target. But if Festool is going to be selective where they allow the product to be sold  then they need to make sure those places know the product or tell you from the start this dealer doesn't know S@#* about our tools... but if you go to this "website" you can get the information and support you need. Then just pick it up from the this location. ....  or.... Why not just buy over the web direct from Festool? They control the price anyway.

We have to assume that you have better dealers in your area.....

We will play the waiting game. Why? Because we do have very good jig saw but wanted the best...and the best is going to come out some times in 2011...fine with us!

Got to say you left me with a soft warm fuzzy feeling..... [thanks]




 



My local dealer is on his way out for the reasons you mentioned in your post.

My point was that you can't keep waiting forever to buy something worried that something new, improved and even more shiny may be coming out later this year or next year or what ever.

It's like not buying a new car because they may change something next year.

they probably were more then happy to get rid of a CT-22 knowing the CT-26 was around the corner.

Yes, I do pay attention to this forum and festool's website so that I know what is going on.


the rambling of your gripe post just reminded me of my wife complaining about things she really has no control over.

I don't think any of those two tools you bought are inferior or anything like that.

Offline Steve R

  • Posts: 919
Re: OH...so many quesions Let me start with the Trion PS 300 EQ
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2010, 06:57 PM »
My Woodcraft dealer called me today and told me the new Pendulum jigsaw CARVEX PSB 400 EQ will be a June 2011 release... better late than never! 

Cheers,

Steve in the Twin Cities, MN
"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)

Offline ccarrolladams

  • Posts: 1466
Re: OH...so many quesions Let me start with the Trion PS 300 EQ
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2010, 08:17 PM »
Steve R,
Just to let you know, after the CT26/36 were announced, I deliberately purchased an additional 2 CT22, for a total of 4. For many purposes the older CT work perfectly fine. The big advantage to the CT26/36 is the self-collapsing bag. This is more important when doing a lot of sanding. Two of my CT22 are dedicated to Kapex where a collapsing bag is not as important.

Once I bought a Trion PS 300 EQ, I sold my older jigsaws. I believe in both chip and splinterguards. I use a variety of blades with my PS 300, so I buy my splinterguards in bags of 20 for @ USA$20.00, plus tax because I buy them locally. The chip guard is USA$5.50. My experience is they last a long time, yet I keep extra in the Systainer with the PS 300. The bulk of my spare chip and splinterguards stay in a Sortainer with the jigsaw blades.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 788
Re: OH...so many quesions Let me start with the Trion PS 300 EQ
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2010, 09:53 PM »
Would you like to purchase another CT 22 so I can buy a 26 or 36?

Offline Steve R

  • Posts: 919
Re: OH...so many quesions Let me start with the Trion PS 300 EQ
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2011, 09:31 PM »
Would you like to purchase another CT 22 so I can buy a 26 or 36?


The 26 and 36 use there own different bags.  I want to Stay with  the CT22 so I don't have to have multiple inventory of bags. If you own a CT22 stay and find more...otherwise sell them all and move to CT26/33s. Finding yourself without bags is not cool when on site and having the wrong bag just ticks you off....

Festool missed a common issue....IMHO... common media....  so now if I buy convert to the CT26.... my  23 bags in inventory  for the CT22 won't fit! I don't want to carry to types of bags when working on site and I work on site 99% of the time

Cheers,
Steve
"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)

Offline Steve R

  • Posts: 919
Re: OH...so many quesions Let me start with the Trion PS 300 EQ
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2011, 09:36 PM »
Got to say I"m so glad I waited for the new Carvex 400 [big grin].  My DeWalt jig...is shaking in it's boots... LOL

Cheers,
Steve
"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)