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Author Topic: No systainer  (Read 3533 times)

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Offline Drich

  • Posts: 198
No systainer
« on: April 03, 2016, 08:22 PM »
With the prices going up and festool being on the high end of things have you ever thought of selling tool with out the case? Some of us who just use them in a home shop don't really need a fancy case for the small DTS sander and would love to see the price drop a 100 bucks with out a case. My drills sit out on the bench also. Just a thought.

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Offline Mort

  • Posts: 355
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Re: No systainer
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2016, 09:33 PM »
I'm just a home shop guy, but all my Festools have so much extra accessories it's nice that they all have a place.

If you've got any extra, I got my used ETS125 without one, I'm looking for a screamin' deal.
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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: No systainer
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2016, 09:45 PM »
Removing the Systainer would likely not drop the price much. The cost of producing it is likely what's added to the price.

The Systainer is important to what Festool represents. I wouldn't want to see tools without Systainers.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 09:48 PM by Shane Holland »
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Offline Bohdan

  • Posts: 939
Re: No systainer
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2016, 09:58 PM »
As I understand the systainer was originally developed as a returnable shipping container to deliver the tools to the end user undamaged, but Festool found that nobody wanted to return the systainer and they became a product in their own right.

Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 615
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Re: No systainer
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2016, 12:54 AM »
For those folks who carry their tools from location to location, it really is the best solution.  For those who are tied to their shop, like me, it helps us keep organized. 

   
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Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6258
Re: No systainer
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2016, 02:09 AM »
In most other countries you get the choice of buying a tool with or without systainer. The price difference is about 35-50 euro depending on the size of the systainer. I am glad we have the choice.

We can also buy most tools in the "Q" only version instead of the "EQ" version, ie without speeds electronics so the tool is single speed. For some people that matters as the tool becomes more reliable, and brings the cost down significantly.

Offline TylerC

  • Posts: 1084
Re: No systainer
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2016, 08:43 AM »
I appreciate the suggestion, and anything is possible in the future. That said, the Systainer is really integral to the entire Festool system -- for organization, transport, etc. At this point, I don't see us providing a Systainer-less option.
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Offline MrGinCT

  • Posts: 102
Re: No systainer
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2016, 08:55 AM »
If you buy a tool with a Systainer and don't want or need the Systainer, then you can EASILY sell it for a great price and reduce the cost of your purchase significantly.
For the rest of us - whether we only use them in our shop, or transport them to job sites daily, the Systainer is a system and a worth while one as they aid in organizing the shop and protecting the tools and accessories in the Systainers.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2745
Re: No systainer
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2016, 09:11 AM »
The price difference down here too is not significant when the actual tool price is considered but for a shop based tool no Systainer is certainly an option.

Looking at one example - the ETS/EC 150

With Systainer A$899 [equiv to US$686] and without A$839 [equiv to US$640]
And A$60 saved for spending on sandpaper.

http://www.festool.com.au/epages/tooltechnic.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/tooltechnic/Products/571891/SubProducts/571890

http://www.festool.com.au/epages/tooltechnic.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/tooltechnic/Products/571891/SubProducts/571891

We can also purchase a ROTEX 150 with fixed lead [no plug it issues] in a box. The plug it version comes in a Systainer and the fixed lead can also be purchased with a Systainer at additional cost.

http://www.festool.com.au/epages/tooltechnic.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/tooltechnic/Products/571762/SubProducts/571762

http://www.festool.com.au/epages/tooltechnic.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/tooltechnic/Products/571762/SubProducts/571807

Again the Systainer option is an additional A$60.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 09:16 AM by Untidy Shop »
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Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 465
Re: No systainer
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2016, 09:58 AM »
I seem to remember that once upon a time in the US, Festool was offering a drill set of three drills in a cardboard box.

The Australian examples I believe show that the dealer mark-up is still added to Festool's wholesale price. There is no way that it costs Festool $46 US to make a plastic box. Systainer with tool is a discounted price from the systainer alone price, but it is still an additional cost.

Festool probably calculates that saving $50 dollars is not really going to often influence a tool purchase in the $100s to over $1000.   

Offline Petey83

  • Posts: 94
Re: No systainer
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2016, 10:10 AM »
Personally one of the strong draws of Festool to me as a hobbyist with limited space to store my tools was the way in which systainers allowed me to store more tools in the same small space. The blow various molded affairs most tools come in made it impossible to stack and pack tools and no box at all would be exactly the same issue for me.

that said i can see why some people would prefer no systainer if it were available as many other brands in the UK sell their cordless tools as bare units as a lower price point which often proves popular if you are already bought into that particular cordless ecosystem
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: No systainer
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2016, 11:44 AM »
With the prices going up and festool being on the high end of things have you ever thought of selling tool with out the case? Some of us who just use them in a home shop don't really need a fancy case for the small DTS sander and would love to see the price drop a 100 bucks with out a case. My drills sit out on the bench also. Just a thought.

I'd love that too, because I would go buy the Sys 2 for $74 (at full retail) and put 26 bucks in my pocket.  [blink]
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: No systainer
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2016, 11:47 AM »
I appreciate the suggestion, and anything is possible in the future. That said, the Systainer is really integral to the entire Festool system -- for organization, transport, etc. At this point, I don't see us providing a Systainer-less option.

I'd guess the reason is because Festool USA doesn't want to stock the two options.
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Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6258
Re: No systainer
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2016, 12:26 PM »
Personally one of the strong draws of Festool to me as a hobbyist with limited space to store my tools was the way in which systainers allowed me to store more tools in the same small space. The blow various molded affairs most tools come in made it impossible to stack and pack tools and no box at all would be exactly the same issue for me.

that said i can see why some people would prefer no systainer if it were available as many other brands in the UK sell their cordless tools as bare units as a lower price point which often proves popular if you are already bought into that particular cordless ecosystem

My system is, I simply put 4 tools in 1 systainer. Not going to work with the TS55 of course, but 4 sanders in a sys 3 is easy. Or 6 in a sys 4. One tool per box looks great and is very functional when you have a nice row of sysports in your shop, but when you're on the move you save a lot of space by cramping your systainers as full as possible.

So just give people the choice. One person prefers this, another that.

By the way, the comment of selling your systainer is spot on, it is very easy to sell them and get some money back.

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 301
Re: No systainer
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2016, 03:03 PM »
As has been mentioned, Festool used to offer some tools in the USA without systainers. I forget all the items, but I believe the OF2000 router was one item that was available in a stripped down version without the systainer and some other doodads at a more affordable cost. Some of the cordless drills were available like this as well, or st least they were if you bought a multipack that was offered that contained more than one drill and charger. I forget whether sny other tools were also offered this way.

One thing that has been mentioned is that the systainers were originally designed as reusable transport casesto make sure the tools got to dealers undamaged. The cases were spparently popular and wouldn't get returned to Festool so  Festool started offfering them as tool cases. If Festool offers the tools without ststsiners, they still have to supply packaging to get the tools to their international distribution centers, and then to their dealers, and then to their customers without the tools getting damaged. Nowadays with the expectation of free shipping, there are a lot of companies that just slap a label on the original packaging that comes with an item and then hand it to the brown shirt or other shipping guy. There is a lot of OEM packaging from tool manufacturers that completely sucks. When I first started buying power tools thru the mail, I quickly came to realize that I had to buy the kit version of tools that came with a case, otherwise when I got the tool, there was a high probability that there eould be a hole in the packaging with the tool visible and partially scuffed. Most of the early tools I purchased were made by Bosch, but a number of other German tool makers using similar packaging.

To sum up, I just doubt selling the tools without the systainers wouldn't save festool as much as one might think, and it would likely increase complaints sbout tools not arriving in pristine undamaged condition. Plus it would make it harder for Festool to sell extra systainers and would remove one of the Festool system advantages.

Online mike_aa

  • Posts: 1098
Re: No systainer
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2016, 03:52 PM »
As has been mentioned, Festool used to offer some tools in the USA without systainers. I forget all the items, but I believe the OF2000 router was one item that was available in a stripped down version without the systainer and some other doodads at a more affordable cost. Some of the cordless drills were available like this as well, or st least they were if you bought a multipack that was offered that contained more than one drill and charger. I forget whether sny other tools were also offered this way.

I haven't been in Festool too long so I can't comment on earlier years.  When I first got started a few years ago I bought a TI 15 basic drill with no batteries or charger, but it came in a nice systainer with an insert that holds two drills.  I didn't know it came that way, but Tom at Tool-Home pointed it out.

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Offline Phil Beckley

  • Posts: 1518
Re: No systainer
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2016, 04:50 PM »
As I understand the systainer was originally developed as a returnable shipping container to deliver the tools to the end user undamaged, but Festool found that nobody wanted to return the systainer and they became a product in their own right.

.....spot on and is exactly how the Systainer came into being.
rg
Phil

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 561
Re: No systainer
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2016, 05:08 PM »
As a person who paid good money to have most of my other non Festool tools in T-Loc boxes (Most Festool boxes but some Metabo T-Locs as well) so they are easier to carry about and fit better into my toolsafe in the van, I would pay significantly less (the cost of the box, plus shipping and faffing about money) for the tool without the box.