My dealer has always told me, if I need to send a tool back for service that I can't live without, I can use the store demo ones.

I have had the breaks on my CT22 break, just called Festool told them the part # I needed and I had the parts the next day, took 10 minutes to replace.

I would lean on your dealer, if I were you.

I would like to deal with the dealer I purchased them from and thats it. I think thats fair who's with me?

I've never run into another tool company that handles repairs that way.  Not sure this would be real practical. If some one abuses their tools, (I'm not saying this is the case for you, just throwing out an example) why should a dealer need to get involved? Also, I buy most of my tools over the internet, how would that work?  Maybe some extra level of service could be provided for pros or those that have the large investment that you have.  I'm not sure what exactly that would look like though.  I'd also be willing to bet that when the end user handles the shipping it would get taken care much more timely than if a 3rd party gets involved.  Returning tools is a PITA, I'm not sure there's a way around it.

Thanks for the welcome Peter,

I did speak with service, (suggested by my dealer)  but it seems sending the tool to Ottawa is the only option right now... In Canada that is.
I am not sending the two vacs across the country to fix 30 dollar wheels.

Mirko

Alex,

Thats what I'm trying to say here, if we are paying 3 times what the average tool costs, then the service I'm after should be automatic.

Mirko

Quote from: Mirko on October 31, 2009, 04:14 PM

I would like to deal with the dealer I purchased them from and thats it. I think thats fair who's with me?

I'm with you, not that it matters much since I'm in Europe, but because here, it's the standard way. With ANY tool we buy from ANY brand, if there's a problem, the dealer where we purchased the item is the first place to go. We take the tools to them, they will handle shipping and dealing with the manufacturer, and give us a call when we can pick up the repaired item at the store.

Steve-co, for me it's really hard to understand your viewpoint. I think the dealers should always be the first place to go to. They have the connections and the supply lines.

For me the only time I would contact the dealer is if I'm not getting any satisfaction from the company.  The dealer doesn't fix anything, they can help facilitate issues that aren't being addressed, why get someone else involved who won't add "value" if not needed.  With Festool we have direct connections with service (who are very responsive), why go anywhere else?  I can see where he's coming from, not wanting to have to deal with it, but it is what it is and there are certain processes/procedures that need to be followed.  I may be off, but that's just my $.02

Maybe dealers need to handle minor repairs, it doesn't make a lot of sense to ship a big vacuum across the country to replace a $20-$40 part, there's always room for improvement in any process, we'll see if Festool has an idea that makes sense to them fiscally and to the end users.

For me the only time I would contact the dealer is if I'm not getting any satisfaction from the company.  The dealer doesn't fix anything, they can help facilitate issues that aren't being addressed, why get someone else involved who won't add "value" if not needed.  With Festool we have direct connections with service (who are very responsive), why go anywhere else?  I can see where he's coming from, not wanting to have to deal with it, but it is what it is and there are certain processes/procedures that need to be followed.  I may be off, but that's just my $.02

One reason and maybe one of the most important reasons Festools are not discounted is to give dealers a good profit on sales. With the profit comes responsibility. One of those is to have people, or at least a person, who know the tools, another is to take care of after sales problems.  They have had their "value" and should provide the service implied. You should not need to go direct to Festool and if you do because the dealer is too laze or incompetent then the dealer should loose their dealership.

Regardless of warranty issues, over here a dealer is expected to take the hassle out of service requests. It's one of the things that make a good dealer stand out.
It's also a reasonably efficient way to funnel down the service requests to the company's service department - rather deal with 500 dealers then with 50000 customers.
If a dealer doesn't handle these issues well enough, you pick another one.
But I do believe that's a bit easier over here, for in a 10 mile radius from where I live, there are at least 15 Festool dealers....

Regards,

Job

Update:

We sent a PM to Mirko on Saturday.
Mirko's dealer got in touch with us Saturday night.
Service department will look into it on Monday morning.

Christian

I can see how this can be a serious issue for pros.  Being a hobbyist, I can just about always wait for parts to ship from Festool, but if I were doing this to make a living, I would be a little nervous.

Not sure what the solution is.  I took a DeWalt tool to the local company store.  It took them a week to look at it.  They determined that the part I said was broke really was broke.  They had to order the part.  Took the part a week to get to them.  Took them another week to get back to my tool.  Then it took me a few days to be able to get away and drive downtown to pick it up.  Darn near a month for something I could have fixed myself in a few minutes.

I have been pleased with Festool corporate service.  One time, the part I needed had to be ordered from Germany, but every other encounter with service has been smooth and effective.  The local Festool dealer is Woodcraft.  They are good folks, but I wouldn't want them working on my tools.

It might be useful if we could get a statement from Festool on exactly what we should expect from dealers in the way of service (if anything).

I think festool USA has a unique situation concerning repair service and heavy power users. 

1  They are a Boutique tool Seller in North America.

    1.1  They sell in small quantities through a very regulated dealer network
    1.2  They service what they sell through, I think, one service center
   
2.  They sell High end tools that in practice need much less service
   
    2.1  they make a tool that is fairly robust and engineered to handle the rigors of heavy daily use 

    2.2   I am guessing that most of the Service they preform is  Initial quality issues and end user screw ups/abuse,  I am guessing that they get very few tools still in warranty that are basically worn out 

    2.2  Most owners and do not subject  their Festools to rigorius daily use, think the treatment that the average Hilti product recives,  they instead tend to pamper them and care for their investment.

3.  Most Festool dealers are not equipped to service power users  who routinely wear out repair items (switches, bases, retaining knobs....  like Mirko's  issues.   because they dont have clients who are running TS 55's 6 hours a day 6 days a week in a production environment
     3.1  I think Festool would love to have this issue come up more often, because that would mean a market penetration that is much deeper than they have now.
     3.2   It is an issue because it is Rare for a client to use his tools to the point where he is Finding out their weak areas  (the CT 33's rear wheels).

4.  Festool USA has this site  where owners can come and get answers from the president of the company and find results to their concerns and the company can continue to improve its service as well.

Thanks Craig

 

After reading all that has been posted in this thread several things stick out in my mind:

1.  Festool in Canada is different than it is here in the United States partially because until 6 or so months ago there was only one dealer in Canada if I am not mistaken.  How things get / got handled is different and may become even more different in the future than what we have here in the US or in other places around the globe.  Comparing one to another geographical area and how things get handled is like comparing imaginary apples and oranges - fruitless.

2.  Festool USA is interested in their customers and addressing issues whether the owner has one tool or one hundred tools.

3.  Festool does monitor this forum and has held true to their claims on how they would use the forum for the betterment of their tool users.

4.  Included with every power tool that I have purchased was an owners manual.  And in that owners manual there is a section that describes how to get service.  At the training class we talked about this briefly and it was pointed out that the number for service is on a label on each power tool so that if there is a need for service or questions it is nice and easy to find.

5.  Festool USA finds this forum and customer service important enough that the CEO takes his personal time to monitor and post here when he feels appropriate.  I don't know about the others here, but I sure haven't seen a post on a forum or on the internet from the head of DeWalt, Bosch, Makita, Fein ...

As I said in an earlier post, Mirko is a professional cabinet maker who posted here often previously and a search of his posts will offer a lot of knowledge.  None of this is addressed to / at him.  His posting in my mind really just brought forward how fortunate we are here in the US versus other countries because each Festool operation is different and reflective of the people who make it happen. Case in point - look at how many people in other countries come here to ask advice because it is not readily available where they live.

Just my opinion,

Peter

Mirko:

I may be premature, but it seems that "DA MAN" in North America took care of everything and there is no more reason to quibble.

This is, among other things, what sets Festool apart from the others and why I am, personally, happy to represent them...


Tom

I am the dealer whom Mirko has been working with to get his tools back in perfect condition.

His parts were ordered through Festool one week ago and will be at my shop on Tuesday.  Festool recently started a Canadian service center and like many things we have some bugs to work out. The Ottawa service center has simplified servicing the Festool line up here in Canada.

When a tool is in need of repair and must go to the service center I send my customers a replacement tool. I don't care how much it costs and how long they have it. The most important thing is they can continue to earn money while their tools are being repaired. Currently, I have Rotex's out as loaners and also TS 55's.

I also make house calls and will rob parts from my personal tools to get a customer out of a jam.

Mirko's request for a spring plate replacement kit was dealt with promptly as I had it in stock and it was simply a matter of getting one to him. I am in transition right now with inventory spread out between my new store and old shop. The spring plate kits were at my personal shop on Friday when Mirko stopped in and I have them now at the store. He will pick one up on Tuesday when he picks up the rest of his parts.

Mirko and I never discussed loaner tools if his vac needed maintenance and had to be shipped to Ottawa. The issue was whether or not it was worth spending $80 shipping a vac to Ottawa or just ordering $30 in parts. We opted to order parts and deal with it locally.

I pride myself on customer support and service and go to great length to ensure my customers are happy. I carry an inventory of common parts such as spring plates and brushes so customers don't have to wait. Unfortunately, I did not have any spare sets of wheels and TS saw base plates.

To be honest, his order went in to Festool immediately after we confirmed the part numbers. The clip for the Long Life bag was a stumper and been difficult to track down a proper part number.

Dan Clermont

Quote from: RonWen on November 01, 2009, 05:31 PM

it's also cheaper because I don't have to pay sales tax. 

This statement means."I don 't pay sales tax because  I am not completely honest on my tax return"   

FWIW you are liable for sales tax on all purchasers. If you evade sales tax this should not be something to boast about.

Of course you are correct Jerome. 

But, I wonder how many of us do the correct thing.   

Quote from: RonWen on November 01, 2009, 05:31 PM

it's also cheaper because I don't have to pay sales tax. 

This statement means."I don 't pay sales tax because  I am not completely honest on my tax return"   

FWIW you are liable for sales tax on all purchasers. If you evade sales tax this should not be something to boast about.

Gentlemen please be careful, the last time this discussion came up it caused an uproar for the previous forum administrator to deal with. It might be best left alone.   

I am the dealer whom Mirko has been working with to get his tools back in perfect condition.

His parts were ordered through Festool one week ago and will be at my shop on Tuesday.  Festool recently started a Canadian service center and like many things we have some bugs to work out. The Ottawa service center has simplified servicing the Festool line up here in Canada.

When a tool is in need of repair and must go to the service center I send my customers a replacement tool. I don't care how much it costs and how long they have it. The most important thing is they can continue to earn money while their tools are being repaired. Currently, I have Rotex's out as loaners and also TS 55's.

I also make house calls and will rob parts from my personal tools to get a customer out of a jam.

Mirko's request for a spring plate replacement kit was dealt with promptly as I had it in stock and it was simply a matter of getting one to him. I am in transition right now with inventory spread out between my new store and old shop. The spring plate kits were at my personal shop on Friday when Mirko stopped in and I have them now at the store. He will pick one up on Tuesday when he picks up the rest of his parts.

Mirko and I never discussed loaner tools if his vac needed maintenance and had to be shipped to Ottawa. The issue was whether or not it was worth spending $80 shipping a vac to Ottawa or just ordering $30 in parts. We opted to order parts and deal with it locally.

I pride myself on customer support and service and go to great length to ensure my customers are happy. I carry an inventory of common parts such as spring plates and brushes so customers don't have to wait. Unfortunately, I did not have any spare sets of wheels and TS saw base plates.

To be honest, his order went in to Festool immediately after we confirmed the part numbers. The clip for the Long Life bag was a stumper and been difficult to track down a proper part number.

Dan Clermont

Dan Don't forget all those parts were ordered on the understanding that I am paying for them... Its a choice...  pay for shipping costs... or the cost of the part.

Mirko

its the method set up for Canadians to deal with repairs, that I was not happy with.

That alone hinders my lust to purchase festool tools that may require servicing...I'm use to dropping stuff off at Hilti and picking it up 3 days later and at the sametime restocking on fastners.

It sounds like festool is so small in Canada they either don't feel the need provide instant support, or it woudn't be cost effective.

Where in Ottawa is the service centre anyway? 

From my point of view if the only centre is in Ottawa then it should go like this :

You should be able to drop tools off at your dealer.
Dealer should be responsible for packing it up and shipping it out.
Festool should cover shipping costs for express delivery there and back.
Assuming they have a half decent service centre you would have your gear back in a week.

That is what I would concider a good level of service and fair...I don't feel that a dealer should be responsible for loaning his demo stock for that week though, unless Festool provides loaner tools.

From my point of view if the only centre is in Ottawa then it should go like this :

You should be able to drop tools off at your dealer.
Dealer should be responsible for packing it up and shipping it out.
Festool should cover shipping costs for express delivery there and back.
Assuming they have a half decent service centre you would have your gear back in a week.

That is what I would concider a good level of service and fair...I don't feel that a dealer should be responsible for loaning his demo stock for that week though, unless Festool provides loaner tools.

I have to disagree, I don't think Festool should be responsible for the expense of shipping to maintain one's tools.

That alone hinders my lust to purchase festool tools that may require servicing...I'm use to dropping stuff off at Hilti and picking it up 3 days later and at the sametime restocking on fastners.....

I do agree here, shipping tools for repair needs to be factored into the buying decision. With professional use it's just a matter of time before tools need to be serviced and this is an area where Festool can't match the larger tool companies' local service centers.

Quote

I have to disagree, I don't think Festool should be responsible for the expense of shipping to maintain one's tools.

Brice,

I appologise I was refering to warrenty covered work, not maintenance after warrenty peroid.

I'm talking about maintenance regardless if the tool is still under warranty or not. I don't know how old Mirko's tool are but it sounds like most of his issues are maintenance related.

I'm not sure but it sounds like he'd like the process to be smoother, for me at least the very few repair parts I've needed were taken care of by Festool or my dealer quickly and easily. I far as I'm concerned there isn't a problem here in the States, up north I don't know.     

Quote from: Inner10 on November 02, 2009, 03:16 PM

Quote

I have to disagree, I don't think Festool should be responsible for the expense of shipping to maintain one's tools.

[/b]
Brice,

I appologise I was refering to warrenty covered work, not maintenance after warrenty peroid.

I'm talking about maintenance regardless if the tool is still under warranty or not. I don't know how old Mirko's tool are but it sounds like most of his issues are maintenance related.

I'm not sure but it sounds like he'd like the process to be smoother, for me at least the very few repair parts I've needed were taken care of by Festool or my dealer quickly and easily. I far as I'm concerned there isn't a problem here in the States, up north I don't know.    

I totally disagree with that one -- The customer shouldn't have to subsidise Festool's choice of service center locations.  If the tool is under warranty it should totally be Festool's responsibility and expense to get it corrected.  When I buy Ridgid tools at HD, if there is a problem (lifetime warranty) I simply drop the tool at the nearest HD and they handle it from there.   We are after all, talking about Festool premium tools.

Personally I don't mind paying for the shipping, especially if the item is out of warranty or if the servicable parts are wear-and-tear items.
Tools will wear if you use them, no big deal. I don't expect a sawblade to be sharpened under warranty, and in my opinion, the same goes for a lot of other parts as well. Premature wear is another ballgame, and I would expect my dealer to step up for me when this occurs.

It's just that I like the dealer to take the hassle out of the whole servicing process, regardless of who pays for the parts and/or shipping in the end.
My dealers ( actually I frequent two Festool dealers ) do just that. They know I'm capable of servicing tools myself, and order parts whenever shipping a tool back and forth isn't required.  When I'm in a pinch I needn't be without a tool, for they'll lend me one. Then again, they know I won't ask if it isn't necessary - these things go both ways.

That's what I consider decent service. I definately need it too, for over here the local Festool subsidiary isn't really keen on dealing with mere end-users, if you catch my drift. Really great guys that will go to all lengths if you meet them at a tradeshow, but apparently in day-to-day business dealing with end-users doesn't fit in the company policy - so be it.


You guys at the other side of the pond face a somewhat different situation, as it seems. Festool dealers few and far between (compared to my situation at least) and apparently a slightly different culture regarding service issues.

But then again apparently there's a good deal ( no pun intended ) of Festool dealers that seem to be willing to walk the extra mile and even a couple beyond that to keep their customers happy, and when even Festool USA's CEO steps in to iron things out, that's kinda special. I may be wrong, but somehow I don't expect  HILTI USA's CEO to do just that

All in all I think most professional users have reason enough to be happy with the way Festool is in touch with their customerbase. Infrastructural limitations apply, but given enough time (say 5 to 10 years ?) I wouldn't be surprised if people would begin to quote "Festool" next to "Hilti" or "Caterpillar" as a reference for top-of-the-line service.


Just my take....


Regards,

Job

Quote

I'm talking about maintenance regardless if the tool is still under warranty or not. I don't know how old Mirko's tool are but it sounds like most of his issues are maintenance related.

I'm of the different opinion that paying a premium for service includes maintenance coverage.  Heck as long as my Hiltis are under warrenty they service them free, and also provide a free clean and lube at anytime even if there isn't a problem, I would expect a similar level of service from Festool, not the attitude of "if something on it breaks you need to pay to send it accross the country".

Have a look at a map, Vancouver to Ottawa is a long trip, and shipping 2X vacumes and a Kapax would be very expensive.

I for one, am not shipping a CT just to have a wheel/brake fixed, send me the parts I will do it.

For the first year, there is no charge for shipping either way, the last two years you pay to get it there, they pay to ship it back.

I have only had a problem with one tool, my RAS 115, they fixed it once, still did not seem right so they replaced it.  Now it works better than ever.

I don't expect Festool to pay to replace wearing parts, even if it happens under the warannty period.  That is the end users responsibility.

I usually feel bad bringing up a complaint or issue about a tool, like the right laser on my Kapex.  Like somone said earlier, you don't see bosch or dewalt or makita or milwaukee or whoever, going to the lengths that Festool does.

I use my tools all day, sometimes under adverse conditions and they just keep going.  I know sometimes something will happen and maybe I will have a failure.  I am totally confident they will take care of me.  Now if it comes to user error, I would not feel right taking advantage of a warannty when it was my fault to begin with.

I also believe some people have the inheriant nature to bitch about something no matter what, maybe even before they go through the right channels.

Kudos to all the dealers and guys at Festool that jump in and make sure we (their customers) are happy.  

Darcy,

Thank you for your post.  I was typing, saved my draft and it disappeared.

So here I go again.  I hate these types of threads because they elevate blood pressure and generally accomplish nothing.  For those people out there who don't pay attention to their owners manuals and other paperwork that come in the plastic boxes with their tools because it has been written here that the manuals aren't well written, I'll offer the following so that you don't have to risk a paper cut.  From the Festool USA website regarding warranties (look MA no paper):

1.  Warranty

FESTOOL'S THREE YEAR WARRANTY

Festool offers a 3 year limited warranty, one of the longest in the industry. This warranty is valid on the pre condition that the tool is used and operated in compliance with the Festool operating instructions. Festool warrants that the specified tool will be free from defects in materials and workmanship for a term of 3 years from the date of purchase.

TERMS & CONDITIONS

You are entitled to a free extended limited warranty (1 year + 2 years = 3 Years) for your Festool power tool. Festool is responsible for all shipping costs during the first year of the warranty. During the second and third year of the warranty the customer is responsible for shipping the tool to Festool. Festool will pay for return shipping to the customer using UPS Ground Service. All warranty service is valid 3 years from the date of purchase on your receipt or invoice.

Excluded from the coverage under this warranty are: normal wear and tear, damages caused by misuse, abuse, or neglect; damage caused by anything other than defects in material and workmanship. This warranty does not apply to accessory items such as circular saw blades, drill bits, router bits, jigsaw blades, sanding belts, and grinding wheels. Also excluded are "wearing parts," such as carbon brushes, lamellas of air tools, rubber collars and seals, sanding discs and pads, batteries, and Festool gear (hats and t shirts).

The obligations of Festool in its sole discretion under this warranty shall be limited to repair or replacement or a refund of the purchase price for any Festool portable power tool that is found to have a defect in materials or workmanship during the warranty period. FESTOOL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR SPECIAL DAMAGES REGARDLESS OF THE THEORY OF LAW ON WHICH THE CLAIM IS BASED . ALL WARRANTIES IMPLIED BY STATE LAW, INCLUDING THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE HEREBY LIMITED TO THE DURATION OF THREE YEARS.

Some states in the U.S. and some Canadian provinces do not allow the limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so the above limitation may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights that vary from state to state in the U.S. and from province to province in Canada.

With the exception of any warranties implied by state or province law as limited above, the foregoing express limited warranty is exclusive and in lieu of all other warranties, guarantees, agreements, and similar obligations of Festool. Festool makes no other warranty, express or implied, for Festool portable power tools. No agent, representative, distributor, dealer, or employee of Festool has the authority to increase or otherwise change the obligations or limitations of this warranty.

2.  I read the stuff above after buying the tool and don't like what I read:

FESTOOL'S 30-DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE

We are so confident that you will thoroughly enjoy our tools, that we offer a 30 day money back guarantee. If you are not completely satisfied, your full purchase price will be refunded, excluding all freight charges.

WARRANTY DISCLAIMER

Festool reserves the right to make changes or improvements on its products without incurring an additional obligation to make corresponding changes or improvements to products previously manufactured or sold. Festool reserves the right to discontinue products at any time without notice. All illustrations and photographs displayed in this catalog are the property of Festool and shall not be duplicated or reproduced without the express written consent of Festool.

3.  How do I get my tools serviced:

Repairs

Download and print the repair order form using the link below.

Repair Order Form
Power tools requiring replacement or repair are to be returned after calling our service department toll-free at 800-554-8741. To ensure better customer service, we?d like to offer you a repair form which you can use each time you send us tools for repair. Please send the form with the tool and as much information as possible. Among other things you can choose an option authorizing us to do a repair for up to $125 without quoting on it. This way we don?t have to bother you with phone calls and can service your tool faster.

Festool is responsible for all shipping costs during the first year of the warranty. During the second and third year of the warranty the customer is responsible for shipping the tool to Festool. Festool will pay for return shipping to the customer using UPS Ground Service. All warranty is valid 3 years from the date of purchase on your receipt or invoice.

SUGGESTION:  Hey Festool.  There are people here who appear to be in the market for an expanded warranty program or a maintenance plan for their tools.  They are a great money maker.  Just go into any store and the cashiers will be glad to sell you one.  Lots of profit.  Based on the price of the tools.

After reading all the posts I have to sit on my fence post and ask what more could have been done?  The customer's needs are being addressed.  The dealer has been involved.  The manufacturer has been involved.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I provide service work for people just like the posters on this forum.  I have had three call backs in 9 years.  I have run across 2 people who could not be satisfied no matter what.  I did what I could to satisfy them and when that wasn't possible I screwed myself.  I can at least look myself in the mirror and respect the guy I see.  But am I going to replace the hinges in the cabinet 5 years later for free?  Would you?  There are realistic expectations and unrealistic.  That is why it is important to read.

Peter

Darcy,

You illustrated my point exactly.  You will go the extra mile to make the customer happy.  But even you have self imposed limits.  That's a major part of what I was trying to say.

Peter