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Author Topic: Kapex  (Read 2727 times)

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Offline Jim M

  • Posts: 21
Kapex
« on: December 05, 2016, 11:15 PM »
Recently attended a local Festool Roadshow and asked one of the reps to walk me through the Kapex. It is my understanding the sliding compound miter saw was developed to enable the user to cut large crown molding on the flat, supplanting the existing 12" standard miter saws of the era that were unable to cut because of height restriction. Hence the detents on the bevel and miter scales for standard 45° and 38° crown. The rep was trying to explain that to cut Crown Molding one should stand the piece on the bed and fence. With all due respect, I am pretty sure this is not correct and certainly not accurate. Are these sales people trained before going into the field? I don't mean to be harsh but after he began with that explanation I began to distrust his overall knowledge.

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Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1486
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: Kapex
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2016, 11:32 PM »
Upside down and backwards.

I'm sure there's other ways too.


Offline Arvid

  • Posts: 82
Re: Kapex
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2016, 11:41 PM »
On the flat is the way I do it and it's easier for me not to have to mess with other attachments to make sure positioning in the upside down upright position is acccurate.
Less fuss and easy and accurate.

Offline Samo

  • Posts: 572
Re: Kapex
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2016, 01:55 AM »
Upside down and backward is much faster for us but it depends on the capacity of the saw your using.  These cuts are best made with a device that holds the molding in the same true orientation each time. 

The Kapex has been accurate for us.  Unfortunately, it is not large enough for most of the stuff we do.  Imagine changing the compound angle on the Kapex for all those opposing cuts ........ super slow.

But....everyone is different and works in different ways and if you are doing custom stuff and have lots of time, then I am jelouse.

Also in IMHO, a tool rep. is a salesperson and even the good ones that may have worked in the field, are not consulted for any method of work by us.  Just show me what the tools features are and the ways they can be applied to our work.  Not trying to sound arrogant but just stating the tool industry is not your friend.  They are sales driven, that's it.

It does sound to me although, the Festool rep. was explaining best practice for the industry.

We own a couple of Kapex saws, a few of the Makita saws in 10" and 12" and four of the 12" Dewalt compound miter saws.  Hope that helps.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1806
Re: Kapex
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2016, 08:14 AM »
The truth is there is always more than one way.  The key is to understand the benefits and drawbacks to each.  Cutting on the flat allows you to do the job with a smaller saw. Cutting nested against the fence allows you to use one scale (miter) to make adjustments, either for opposing cuts or fine tweaks for out of square walls. The miter scale affords a little more accuracy by virtue of its size. 
-Raj

Offline TylerC

  • Posts: 1084
Re: Kapex
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2016, 08:46 AM »
The rep was probably talking about cutting the molding in nested position but wasn't communicating it well.

@Jim M Out of curiosity, do you know if the rep you spoke with was a Festool employee or a dealer employee?

We use a combination of permanent Roadshow staff (Allen -- King of the Roadshow), a few Festool sales managers, one Festool marketing rep (some dummy like me), and dealer staff. Our dealers and their teams are great, but it's not uncommon for some of their team members to not be experts about every Festool product. Our desire is that if a Roadshow worker doesn't have an answer, they'll ask someone who does or be honest about not knowing the answer off-hand.
This account is retired. Please address all Festool questions to @festool usa.

Offline Arvid

  • Posts: 82
Re: Kapex
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2016, 03:07 PM »
i do not see any advantage to cutting crown moulding nested. only way to do it accurately is to affix another device to the saw or saw base to make sure it sits nested exactly the same each time. that is a nuisance to me as it is in the way if i suddenly need to cut something else. flipping the bevel takes a second or two  and doing for 200 cuts at the end of the day will account for 3-4 minutes at the end of the day. guys waste more time on their phones then that texting.  you can measure your angles and when done enough almost set the bevel from memory. i have a cheat sheet printed for angles 85 through 95 printed on a label and stuck to the fence of the saw. inside cuts are coped so i cut the whole stack of crown then cope the whole stack on one side before i start. outside corners are all i have to tweak a 1/2 a degree or degree to get the outside points to meet nicely. tighter the a frogs vagina
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 03:11 PM by Arvid »

Offline Jim M

  • Posts: 21
Re: Kapex
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2016, 05:50 PM »
I agree with Arvid. I do a lot of custom residential crown molding, sometimes three and four part which inhibits the ability to cope. But with a compound miter saw, once one understands the presets, I doubt this takes more time and cutting once is always faster. To the original point I presume this was a salesman and not a journeyman carpenter. The explanation of features was weak at best. No matter I get my information elsewhere but its seems that representation of Festool by these reps should be a bit more closely vetted.

Offline Arvid

  • Posts: 82
Re: Kapex
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2016, 05:55 PM »
I agree with Arvid. I do a lot of custom residential crown molding, sometimes three and four part which inhibits the ability to cope. But with a compound miter saw, once one understands the presets, I doubt this takes more time and cutting once is always faster. To the original point I presume this was a salesman and not a journeyman carpenter. The explanation of features was weak at best. No matter I get my information elsewhere but its seems that representation of Festool by these reps should be a bit more closely vetted.

The reps have hardly ever worked in the field with real world experienced. And are trained to sell you the extra crown support stops so harry home owner can cut his crown nested upside down. lets face it here in the states more hobbiest and do it yourselfers use festool then the pros do. Most of these reps are demonstrating and speaking to hobbiest not professional production guys.

Offline justinh

  • Posts: 165
    • Profiled Edge Woodworks
Re: Kapex
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2016, 08:31 PM »
I agree with Arvid. I do a lot of custom residential crown molding, sometimes three and four part which inhibits the ability to cope. But with a compound miter saw, once one understands the presets, I doubt this takes more time and cutting once is always faster. To the original point I presume this was a salesman and not a journeyman carpenter. The explanation of features was weak at best. No matter I get my information elsewhere but its seems that representation of Festool by these reps should be a bit more closely vetted.

Salesman or journeyman the rep isn't wrong.  Cutting in position is a very accurate way of cutting crown.  Uncopable crown and built ups are good examples of when cutting in position is beneficial.  Most of the uncopable profiles I work with are highly detailed and to run require that a lot of material be removed on the face of the molding when run through the moulder.  The wood will tend to cup in that direction. Cutting in position only requires that two points on the trim touch the fence and table of the saw so the molding doesn't rock when cutting as it would if cut flat.  The cup tends to be fairly consistent from piece to piece so the cutting technique ends up being more accurate.  There's a couple of ways around this when cutting flat which are nice to know when the material is too big to fit under the saw in position.  The cup also changes the spring angle and you will need to know the spring angle to cut flat.  Crown comes in a lot more spring angles than 38 or 45.  cutting in position you don't need to know or care what the angle is.  You simply need to know the rise. 

When doing built ups its pretty common to have to tweak spring angles to keep reveals running true.  I commonly change the rise from corner to corner on a built up to maintain margins given less than flat ceilings and walls.  Cutting on the flat this requires a math problem.  Cutting in position you just measure the rise on the wall, transfer the rise to the fence of the saw , and shift the stop until the top of the molding hits the line on the fence.

The workflow is simpler and more intuitive in position.  You cut mating miters by just simply turning the miter table. Minor angle tweaks require only an adjustment to the miter.  The bevel takes care of itself.  Your marks are always easily visible and easy to hit increasing the number of first time fits and reducing the time required to do the job.  If you need to make a cut that the stop interferes with rip a block that fits between the fence and the stop.  Register the stop off the fence and bring the stop back to it.  I usually run one moulding type throughout a house or floor so it's rare that I need to reset.

I'm comfortable cutting either way and have efficient work flows for either method. Just part of being a carpenter.