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Author Topic: Festool drills / drivers, Why?  (Read 22415 times)

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Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7776
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2021, 01:45 PM »
For those of you with Festool and other brand cordless tools ... do you buy Centrotec bits or an adapter so you use all your existing 1/4” bits?

Both. Whatever I need. Or come across.

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Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1608
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer - 22/02/21 inactive.
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2021, 01:52 PM »
I went "all in" with Centrotec from the beginning, so I use mostly that with my Festool drill/drivers. But I do have an enormous selection of 1/4" hex shank stuff as well.

While I use the locking bit-holder to allow use of 1/4" hex bits in my Festool drill/drivers, I do not use the Centrotec/FastFix adapter on other manufacturer's drill/drivers, except for the AEG in my drill stand/drill press.


Kind regards,
Oliver 
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1398
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2021, 02:02 PM »
But take Festool. The RAS is no longer produced and NO ONE ELSE has respective product like it on the market. This means "Festool not succeed means I cannot buy the tool at all". So naturally, I would care for that not happening.

I would not care for a mass market product like that - as there is no risk I will no longer be able to buy a casual power drill regardless if Milwaukee went out of business. Most likely I would not be able to buy "CXS analogue" if Festool stopped making it. A fundamentally different scenario.

So I agree with you, but this is also something that varies by country.  In the US, you basically have the mass market tools, and then a niche of Festool, and a niche in the niche of Mafell.  All the Festool stuff is already hard to get/niche/not available here to start.  Tools that were offered, just go away (folks could create a long list), or just were never offered.  So with that, buying anything Festool becomes a questionable move, as you don't know when the rug will be pulled out.  Like you say, if something goes away, and you just go to another brand, then not a big deal, but here, Festool can be the only brand with a tool of a type out there.  Buying anything Festool is a risk.  In Europe, there is basically no risk of the tool just going away regionally there, but still be around elsewhere (CMS being the only real strange story). And if a tool goes away, you have such a large install base of Festool stuff, you're not left with a freak tool. And then you have manufactures of similar stuff to Festool, which either don't exist here, or they sell just a tiny portion of their stuff here.  Batteries will always make things harder.  The good news it the tool is now global verses corded, the bad news is you have a battery system, so tossing it for something else is never fun.   For those who use their tools every day (professionals), regular battery/tool replacement might just be normal. But for those who are hobbiest, it becomes a bigger issue.   You see in the US where Milwaukee, dewalt have branched out to things like yard tools and everything else one can think of, so folks can maximize battery usage of those systems.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 04:06 PM by DeformedTree »

Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 351
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2021, 03:52 PM »
I have a few Centrotec drill bits, mainly so I can use them in the Festool drill's quick change chuck. To me, that works better than 1/4" drive drill bits in any 1/4" adapter.

For driver bits, most often I use 1/4 bits in a Centrotec adaptor. I do have a selection of 50mm Centrotec driver bits and a long Philips to use when the situation fits.

Offline gunnyr

  • Posts: 309
    • Compass Custom Creations
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2021, 04:20 PM »
I’ve never understood the desire for the Festool cordless drill/drivers ... is it brand loyalty, same batteries as the cordless circular saw, actually better quality/ergonomics??

For me it is because of better quality and ergonomics.  I make no claim to quantify.  I own drills and drivers from DeWalt, Milwaukee and Festool. My Milwaukee Surge is my daily workhorse.  Although I own 2 CSX's my go to light drill is my Milwaukee 4 in 1, followed closely by my CSX.  For cabinet assembly I choose the CSX.  For heavy drilling, my Festool PDC 18, no question. 

The Festool drills just feel better in my hands.  I want to own tools I enjoy using.  Adding new battery platforms is not a real concern for me.

Given that these tools will last MANY years, price is not an overriding factor.  If it were price alone it be at Harbor Freight.

Like others have said; no need to hate, just don't buy.  I don't hate Makita but I don't own any either.  I came close to buying their cordless router several times and still might buy one (after all it comes in a Systainer!)
Semper Fi,
Jeff

TS 55 REQ|HKC 55|PSB 420|DF 500|ETS EC 125/3 EQ|ETS 150/3|ETSC 125|DTSC 400|RO 90|RO 150|OF 1400|OF 1010|MFK 700|LR 32|MFS 400/700|CXS (2)|PDC 18|DWC 18-4500|CT MIDI|CT 26|CT 48|MFT/3 (2)|VAC SYS-SET|STL 450|DUO-SET|SYSLITE KAL II
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Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 971
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2021, 05:21 PM »
I'm happy to have a lot of Centrotec bits. It's very nice when switching from drilling to screwing. The quality is high in the Zobo bits, Steel twist bits, brad point and stone bits. When I need to use non centrotec bits I use the hex bit driver with centrotec shaft. The Jacobs chuck works good enough for non centrotec stuff. The square 3/8 is great for driving hex head bolts.. So it's all good here.

Need to replace the 5mm bradpoint bit, that will be expensive in Centrotec as brandpoint bits aren't replaceable to the centrotec integrated holder as the metal twist bits are.
TS 55 R EBQ, Vecturo OSC, BHC SDS, RO 150, 850 HL E Planer, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, OF 2200, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set, 
Festool 18V HKC 55, TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus   TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3

Offline Imemiter

  • Posts: 208
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2021, 06:40 PM »
For those of you with Festool and other brand cordless tools ... do you buy Centrotec bits or an adapter so you use all your existing 1/4” bits?

My CSX came with a magnetic 1/4" adapter. But I spent probably $200 picking up Centrotec bits from Festool and Snappy. Maybe a little more than that actually... The Snappy sets are good kit, imo. The drill set is perfectly fine, if Imperial. And the countersinks and center (Vix) bits are serviceable. On top of that I've tried to get only the bits I'm using regularly - Phillips and Pozi 2&3s, 1&2 Robertsons, a few Torx. Lately I've been doing a lot of door and cabinet hardware and it's been great moving from job to job with just the CSX and the few five or six bits I need.     

Offline mino

  • Posts: 937
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2021, 06:48 PM »
For those of you with Festool and other brand cordless tools ... do you buy Centrotec bits or an adapter so you use all your existing 1/4” bits?
Since bought my C12 I actually do not use the Centrotec bits.

But I DO use all my Centrotec chucks with bit holders in each for the various bits I swap on a project. I find the chuck-with-bit easier to handle than individual bits.

Normally, I would have 2 drills around, and in between them 3 Centrotec chucks and 2 Jacobs chucks pre-filled with tools in them I use/need for the given job.

So, both. I do not use the Centrotec *bits* but take massive advantage of the Centrotec *system* all the time.

I believe the strength of Centrotec for tools is really in the specialist bits - like Zobo and other - while for casual "consumable" bits the CT chuck + holder are a very nice combo. It. Just. Works.TM

Once thing I will say - if you have only one drill having a couple spare Centrotec chucks and one or even two spare Jacobs chucks is gold.
Having several Jacobs chucks ready with the needed bits in them is immensely practical even with one drill. They stand very stably on any surface and having 2mm or 3 mm bits in them is so much better.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 06:50 PM by mino »
When The Machine has no brains, use Yours.

Offline Lincoln

  • Posts: 217
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2021, 07:19 PM »
I like the CXS, does everything it should and is super comfortable to use. I think the battery situation is a bit weird, but doesn't worry me that much. Great drill/driver for cabinet work, door hardware etc.
My go to cordless platform is Fein - build quality is superb, batteries are fantastic. They don't have a huge range, but cover enough to keep me happy.
One platform will never be enough. I currently run - Fein, Festool, Hikoki and Mafell.
If I had Festool saws, instead of Mafell, I'd probably use their drills as well.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1371
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2021, 08:31 AM »
I had a hard time swallowing the price for the CXS. I'm a Milwaukee guy for cordless drills etc. At the time their installer tool wasn't available. Had it been I probably would've gotten it instead. But you know what? I love the CXS. I use it all the time. I find excuses to use it when a more powerful drill would probably be better.

I just picked up the TID 18 set. Not because I particularly wanted the TID 18 but because it was the cheapest path to getting into the 18V batteries for the Vecturo. It's a nice enough impact, feels good in the hand. Had I not needed the 18V batteries, I would've gotten a Milwaukee Surge instead.
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Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 108
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2021, 08:52 AM »
I just got a T18 Easy kit through the recon sale only for the batteries (@DynaGlide, isn't that the cheapest kit for the batteries).

My plan was to sell the drill maybe for $120 and keep the batteries. Would have been a cheap way to get two 4Ah batteries with bluetooth. Now that I have the drill, it's so much nicer than my Milwaukee M18 brushless (not the FUEL). The first thing I noticed was how quiet it is. The Milwaukee is super loud for a drill compared to the T18. Big difference for me. Second, the electronic torque setting through the dial in the back is much more precise. I also really like that there is a separate switch for drilling versus driving so you can leave the torque setting untouched when switching. Third, the overall feel is certainly better but I wouldn't have kept the T18 just for that.

My 2 cents from someone with a small collection of drills.


Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1371
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2021, 09:07 AM »
I just got a T18 Easy kit through the recon sale only for the batteries (@DynaGlide, isn't that the cheapest kit for the batteries).

My plan was to sell the drill maybe for $120 and keep the batteries. Would have been a cheap way to get two 4Ah batteries with bluetooth. Now that I have the drill, it's so much nicer than my Milwaukee M18 brushless (not the FUEL). The first thing I noticed was how quiet it is. The Milwaukee is super loud for a drill compared to the T18. Big difference for me. Second, the electronic torque setting through the dial in the back is much more precise. I also really like that there is a separate switch for drilling versus driving so you can leave the torque setting untouched when switching. Third, the overall feel is certainly better but I wouldn't have kept the T18 just for that.

My 2 cents from someone with a small collection of drills.

@Josh2 Yes, it's the cheapest. I got the recon as well. IIRC they were about $40 difference. I figure if I'm going to get a T18 I'm going to want the one with the interchangeable chucks which is why I opted for the impact instead.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 722
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2021, 09:44 AM »
I just picked up the TID 18 set. Not because I particularly wanted the TID 18 but because it was the cheapest path to getting into the 18V batteries for the Vecturo. It's a nice enough impact, feels good in the hand. Had I not needed the 18V batteries, I would've gotten a Milwaukee Surge instead.

@DynaGlide I am following that same thought process.  I have the Vecturo coming this week and I wanted another drill with same battery config.  I still don't know enough about the features of each drill.  The only for sure thing is I don't need a noisy hammer drill.  Can you tell me which T18 set you got?  I also saw the T 18 E but I don't know what the E stands for.  I do have simple drilling needs, nothing special but this set below looks to be a good choice for me.

Festool 576494 Screw&drill Set TID18 HPC 4,0I-Set T18

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1371
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2021, 09:47 AM »
@Rick Herrick The TID 18 is their noisy impact driver. Probably what you want to avoid. That's what I bought.

The T18 E stands for Easy IIRC, it has nice features like electronic clutch but sacrifices the ability to put different chucks, like the CXS or the T18 +3, for example. It has a fixed jacobs chuck.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline zachjowi

  • Posts: 91
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2021, 10:25 AM »
I just got a T18 Easy kit through the recon sale only for the batteries (@DynaGlide, isn't that the cheapest kit for the batteries).

My plan was to sell the drill maybe for $120 and keep the batteries. Would have been a cheap way to get two 4Ah batteries with bluetooth. Now that I have the drill, it's so much nicer than my Milwaukee M18 brushless (not the FUEL). The first thing I noticed was how quiet it is. The Milwaukee is super loud for a drill compared to the T18. Big difference for me. Second, the electronic torque setting through the dial in the back is much more precise. I also really like that there is a separate switch for drilling versus driving so you can leave the torque setting untouched when switching. Third, the overall feel is certainly better but I wouldn't have kept the T18 just for that.

My 2 cents from someone with a small collection of drills.

I'd be interested in that drill if you sell it.

Offline JeremyH.

  • Posts: 320
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2021, 11:21 AM »
CXS is the best. It's the best tool purchase I've made. The ergonomics, quality, long lasting, and accessories make it amazing. The clutch system is a dream for when you need to do light work (other drills just plain suck at that).

It's way stronger than you think it is... I've driven plenty of long screws into studs and such. Short of decking there isn't really any reason why it couldn't be anyone's number one drill.

I've debated grabbing Makita's smaller brushless black combo several times, or even a Festool combo but... I just haven't required having anything else yet. Going towards 6 years now (I don't even like saying that, but it's true).
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 07:33 AM by JeremyH. »
CXS;RO150;ETS EC 125/3 EQ;CT26e  KSS400;MT55cc;DDF 40

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 722
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2021, 01:21 PM »
I just got a T18 Easy kit through the recon sale only for the batteries

@Josh2 Hey Josh, on that T18 E, can you tell me if this model has a clutch? 

Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 108
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2021, 01:26 PM »
I just got a T18 Easy kit through the recon sale only for the batteries

@Josh2 Hey Josh, on that T18 E, can you tell me if this model has a clutch?

It has the dial in the back for electronic torque control (not sure if you still call it clutch). No traditional clutch in the front. I think that is the same as the standard T18+3. Does that answer your question?

Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 108
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2021, 01:27 PM »
I am tempted to keep it but will DM if I change my mind over the next 3 days.

I just got a T18 Easy kit through the recon sale only for the batteries (@DynaGlide, isn't that the cheapest kit for the batteries).

My plan was to sell the drill maybe for $120 and keep the batteries. Would have been a cheap way to get two 4Ah batteries with bluetooth. Now that I have the drill, it's so much nicer than my Milwaukee M18 brushless (not the FUEL). The first thing I noticed was how quiet it is. The Milwaukee is super loud for a drill compared to the T18. Big difference for me. Second, the electronic torque setting through the dial in the back is much more precise. I also really like that there is a separate switch for drilling versus driving so you can leave the torque setting untouched when switching. Third, the overall feel is certainly better but I wouldn't have kept the T18 just for that.

My 2 cents from someone with a small collection of drills.

I'd be interested in that drill if you sell it.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 722
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2021, 01:39 PM »

It has the dial in the back for electronic torque control (not sure if you still call it clutch). No traditional clutch in the front. I think that is the same as the standard T18+3. Does that answer your question?

Thanks Josh.  I have to admit my lack of skill in this area (most areas I am finding out...).  I don't know if clutch is the proper term but what I am looking for is the function to change a dial so that when the screw gets so far down (flush preferable), it stops driving it anymore and makes different noise.

I hope the T 18 E has this because for $300 I get 2 more batteries and, essentially, another drill and systainer for $60 since the batteries list at $120 a piece.  But even if it doesn't, I still have plenty of drills that do.

Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 108
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2021, 02:13 PM »
Yes, the T18 E has that functionality. What you are talking is the drill clutch to control the torque. On most drills, it's behind the chuck in the front of the drill. On the T18 it's a small dial on the back of the drill and is arguably (more precise, you can switch between drilling and driving without changing the setting).

Maybe there is T18 E left on the recon sales, which would bring the price down to about $240 but reduce warranty to 1 year.


It has the dial in the back for electronic torque control (not sure if you still call it clutch). No traditional clutch in the front. I think that is the same as the standard T18+3. Does that answer your question?

Thanks Josh.  I have to admit my lack of skill in this area (most areas I am finding out...).  I don't know if clutch is the proper term but what I am looking for is the function to change a dial so that when the screw gets so far down (flush preferable), it stops driving it anymore and makes different noise.

I hope the T 18 E has this because for $300 I get 2 more batteries and, essentially, another drill and systainer for $60 since the batteries list at $120 a piece.  But even if it doesn't, I still have plenty of drills that do.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 722
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2021, 02:30 PM »
Yes, the T18 E has that functionality. What you are talking is the drill clutch to control the torque. On most drills, it's behind the chuck in the front of the drill. On the T18 it's a small dial on the back of the drill and is arguably (more precise, you can switch between drilling and driving without changing the setting).

Maybe there is T18 E left on the recon sales, which would bring the price down to about $240 but reduce warranty to 1 year.

Hi Josh, thanks for checking that, and the explanation, very helpful.  I think I am one of the few that doesn't jump on the recon site.  For the extra $60 I can get my 30 days, 3 years and its brand new.  Thanks for your help.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 937
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2021, 05:52 PM »

It has the dial in the back for electronic torque control (not sure if you still call it clutch). No traditional clutch in the front. I think that is the same as the standard T18+3. Does that answer your question?

Thanks Josh.  I have to admit my lack of skill in this area (most areas I am finding out...).  I don't know if clutch is the proper term but what I am looking for is the function to change a dial so that when the screw gets so far down (flush preferable), it stops driving it anymore and makes different noise.

I hope the T 18 E has this because for $300 I get 2 more batteries and, essentially, another drill and systainer for $60 since the batteries list at $120 a piece.  But even if it doesn't, I still have plenty of drills that do.
Get the T18.
Scratch this.
Just checked the US prices. The  T18E Plus option is very much a "tool for free" scenario. Impossible to argue against that.

original:
Not for Centrotec per se. But for getting 2 QUICK-change chucks. One for screw bits, Jacobs for drill bits. This alone is well worth the price difference.

You may decide to expand on that or not. But it is well worth the price difference between 18e and "18 proper". Worst case, you can still sell it along ...
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 06:19 PM by mino »
When The Machine has no brains, use Yours.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1573
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2021, 11:35 AM »
The trigger on the Festool drills is just very nice. If you want a trigger that starts at 1000 rpm you can always buy a Dewalt drill..

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 722
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2021, 11:47 AM »
I ordered the T 18 E yesterday and found the Festool Live video that was specifically for this drill.  Answered a lot of questions, glad I found it.


Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 847
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2021, 04:01 PM »
Well, I received my Recon CXS Compact Cordless Drill Set today.  First impressions ...

  • Trigger Control - Even with gentle trigger application my M12 kicks on pretty high RPM.  The CXS has such fine low RPM control I doubt I'll ever need to hand fasten anything again!
  • Ergonomics - It's comfortable and well balanced.  I had a hard time keeping the Parf Guide Drill Jig level on top of the rule when drilling my MFT top with M12 drill.  I suspect the light weight and balance of the CXS will eliminate this issue altogether even allowing to more easily drill perpendicular holes.
  • Clutch - It feels good but it's to early to tell if is superior here also.
  • Centrotec - I'm not sure how much better this is but most important for me is that the included adapter works with 1/4" bits.  You can use Centrotec and 1/4" without any additional purchase!
  • Magnet - I never have a flat head when I need one so magnetic bit storage is great but more importantly the Centrotec adapter magnetizes all my non magnetized bits!

I never thought I'd buy any Festool cordless drill/impacts but am thankful to all of you for the positive feedback on the CXS ... it's such a nice drill I'm ready to take it around the house just looking for something to adjust or use it on even if it doesn't need it!

Are there any tips/sets you recommend I pickup for it?

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 9670
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2021, 04:12 PM »
Are there any tips/sets you recommend I pickup for it?

Make sure you have the higher 2.6 Ah battery as the original 1.5 Ah battery goes away pretty quickly.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 1301
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2021, 04:18 PM »
Congrats Bugsysiegals!

Your first impressions is very much what most think when using such thoughtfully built tool.
A drill just spins a shaft, so really any can do. But from there and to a drill that has many fantastic qualities, such as comfort, a superbly sensitive trigger, gearbox that suits extremely well, a motor that’s quiet and on top of that a very fine tuned controller for the torque control.
Add to that a very light and compact package, that fits most hands.

Did you get the kit with the angle attachment?
The bit holder it comes with is very good, there are some longer ones, as well as the locking bit holder you might add later.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 847
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2021, 04:23 PM »
Unless somebody opened the batteries I've two 2.6 batteries.  Thanks!

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 847
Re: Festool drills / drivers, Why?
« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2021, 04:29 PM »
Congrats Bugsysiegals!

Your first impressions is very much what most think when using such thoughtfully built tool.
A drill just spins a shaft, so really any can do. But from there and to a drill that has many fantastic qualities, such as comfort, a superbly sensitive trigger, gearbox that suits extremely well, a motor that’s quiet and on top of that a very fine tuned controller for the torque control.
Add to that a very light and compact package, that fits most hands.

Did you get the kit with the angle attachment?
The bit holder it comes with is very good, there are some longer ones, as well as the locking bit holder you might add later.

Thanks, and I did get the kit with the angle attachment ... I didn't think it would be very useful for me until I was tightening some drawer handles and left the adapter downstairs which meant I had to unload the drawers ... next time I'm on this task I know to grab it!

Are the pieces you mention Festool or aftermarket products?