Author Topic: Question for DerrickC . - TKS Saw (Read 4006 times)

Intex · « **on:** February 13, 2020, 11:43 AM »

Are the rumors correct that Festool will not be initially be bringing the TKS Table saw to North America, after they had stated that they would?
Is Festool again forcing users that want/need some of the tools currenly available elsewhere, to resort to importing it themselves? I am a happy owner of a Kapex 60 here.

DerickC · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2020, 02:05 PM »

There are currently no plans to bring the TKS 80 to the North American market.

Alanbach · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2020, 10:49 PM »

I am curious where you saw that? Everything that I have read had Festool saying from the beginning that this saw would not be available in NA? I am not questioning you at all just curious as to where you read that?

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #3 on:** February 26, 2020, 02:45 AM »

To be honest, if I lived in North America, the TKS 80 would be way down my list of table saws, probably not even on my list.
The choice over there including SawStop, provides you guys with so many better options than the TKS 80.
In reality that’s probably how Festool see it too.

yetihunter · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2020, 02:43 AM »

Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on February 26, 2020, 02:45 AM

To be honest, if I lived in North America, the TKS 80 would be way down my list of table saws, probably not even on my list.
The choice over there including SawStop, provides you guys with so many better options than the TKS 80.
In reality that’s probably how Festool see it too.

The grass isn’t as green as paid shills would have you believe. Cabinet saws, maybe. The jobsite sawstop with stand is HYUGE. Aside from said Sawstop, the only reasonably precise/accurate portable table saw here is the Erika ($3-5k and the “wrong” voltage). The Festool and Erika fit in a sedan. The jobsite sawstop barely fits in a van. Compact/portable + more precise than rough cuts for framing is an untapped market. I understand that Festool USA is having covid-19 related customs problems with larger items like the Kapex (or something along the lines of) but come a year from now, they’d be crazy not to bring this saw to the North American market. Off the store shelf outfeed table, more than a fingernail’s worth of table in front of the blade...take my money. I’m sure many finish carpenters and woodworkers with limited space feel the same way.

yetihunter · « **Reply #5 on:** May 25, 2020, 02:53 AM »

Quote from: DerickC on February 25, 2020, 02:05 PM

There are currently no plans to bring the TKS 80 to the North American market.

I know that that is a standard official Festool answer, but if for any reason Festool actually really really truly really doesn’t plan on bringing it here someday, I hope that the company at least reaches out to customers who own and use Festool products with a poll or similar.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #6 on:** May 25, 2020, 06:17 AM »

Quote from: yetihunter on May 25, 2020, 02:43 AM

Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on February 26, 2020, 02:45 AM
To be honest, if I lived in North America, the TKS 80 would be way down my list of table saws, probably not even on my list.
The choice over there including SawStop, provides you guys with so many better options than the TKS 80.
In reality that’s probably how Festool see it too.

The grass isn’t as green as paid shills would have you believe. Cabinet saws, maybe. The jobsite sawstop with stand is HYUGE. Aside from said Sawstop, the only reasonably precise/accurate portable table saw here is the Erika ($3-5k and the “wrong” voltage). The Festool and Erika fit in a sedan. The jobsite sawstop barely fits in a van. Compact/portable + more precise than rough cuts for framing is an untapped market. I understand that Festool USA is having covid-19 related customs problems with larger items like the Kapex (or something along the lines of) but come a year from now, they’d be crazy not to bring this saw to the North American market. Off the store shelf outfeed table, more than a fingernail’s worth of table in front of the blade...take my money. I’m sure many finish carpenters and woodworkers with limited space feel the same way.

I have a few friends in the states, two of them are in the carpentry business. From what they’ve shown me in the way of machinery and power tools, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over a TKS-80.
Obviously this sort of thing is opinion based but, pushing the TKS-80 in N.A. Would be like selling ice to eskimos

CarolinaNomad · « **Reply #7 on:** June 25, 2020, 09:39 PM »

Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on May 25, 2020, 06:17 AM

Quote from: yetihunter on May 25, 2020, 02:43 AM
Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on February 26, 2020, 02:45 AM
To be honest, if I lived in North America, the TKS 80 would be way down my list of table saws, probably not even on my list.
The choice over there including SawStop, provides you guys with so many better options than the TKS 80.
In reality that’s probably how Festool see it too.

The grass isn’t as green as paid shills would have you believe. Cabinet saws, maybe. The jobsite sawstop with stand is HYUGE. Aside from said Sawstop, the only reasonably precise/accurate portable table saw here is the Erika ($3-5k and the “wrong” voltage). The Festool and Erika fit in a sedan. The jobsite sawstop barely fits in a van. Compact/portable + more precise than rough cuts for framing is an untapped market. I understand that Festool USA is having covid-19 related customs problems with larger items like the Kapex (or something along the lines of) but come a year from now, they’d be crazy not to bring this saw to the North American market. Off the store shelf outfeed table, more than a fingernail’s worth of table in front of the blade...take my money. I’m sure many finish carpenters and woodworkers with limited space feel the same way.

I have a few friends in the states, two of them are in the carpentry business. From what they’ve shown me in the way of machinery and power tools, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over a TKS-80.
Obviously this sort of thing is opinion based but, pushing the TKS-80 in N.A. Would be like selling ice to eskimos

Not necessarily so Jiggy. When you accumulate 2 MFT's, Conturo Table, Kapex with Wings and rolling cart, Full CMS table (Extensions, Wings, etc.), TS 75, Tk 55, 1400, 2200, the little festool router, 5 sanders, 3 vacuum, 3 cordless drills, Big and Little Domino, and every other festool lingere, mixing A Brand with B Brand creates chaos.

Honestly, having the MFT, Conturo Table Kapex and the CMS Router Table, the HKS-80 makes since to add due to the height and connectablility (if thats a word). I bought into the Festool System of Compactibility in NA. I already feel forgotten with the CMS. If someone can sell me the HKS-80 for a reasonable price in NA, I'll buy it. I need to buy a table saw in 6 monthes. I was looking at the sawstop due to NA, but would rather incorporate the HKS 80 into my already existing arsenal.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #8 on:** June 26, 2020, 03:37 AM »

Quote from: CarolinaNomad on June 25, 2020, 09:39 PM

Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on May 25, 2020, 06:17 AM
Quote from: yetihunter on May 25, 2020, 02:43 AM
Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on February 26, 2020, 02:45 AM
To be honest, if I lived in North America, the TKS 80 would be way down my list of table saws, probably not even on my list.
The choice over there including SawStop, provides you guys with so many better options than the TKS 80.
In reality that’s probably how Festool see it too.

The grass isn’t as green as paid shills would have you believe. Cabinet saws, maybe. The jobsite sawstop with stand is HYUGE. Aside from said Sawstop, the only reasonably precise/accurate portable table saw here is the Erika ($3-5k and the “wrong” voltage). The Festool and Erika fit in a sedan. The jobsite sawstop barely fits in a van. Compact/portable + more precise than rough cuts for framing is an untapped market. I understand that Festool USA is having covid-19 related customs problems with larger items like the Kapex (or something along the lines of) but come a year from now, they’d be crazy not to bring this saw to the North American market. Off the store shelf outfeed table, more than a fingernail’s worth of table in front of the blade...take my money. I’m sure many finish carpenters and woodworkers with limited space feel the same way.

I have a few friends in the states, two of them are in the carpentry business. From what they’ve shown me in the way of machinery and power tools, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over a TKS-80.
Obviously this sort of thing is opinion based but, pushing the TKS-80 in N.A. Would be like selling ice to eskimos

Not necessarily so Jiggy. When you accumulate 2 MFT's, Conturo Table, Kapex with Wings and rolling cart, Full CMS table (Extensions, Wings, etc.), TS 75, Tk 55, 1400, 2200, the little festool router, 5 sanders, 3 vacuum, 3 cordless drills, Big and Little Domino, and every other festool lingere, mixing A Brand with B Brand creates chaos.

Honestly, having the MFT, Conturo Table Kapex and the CMS Router Table, the HKS-80 makes since to add due to the height and connectablility (if thats a word). I bought into the Festool System of Compactibility in NA. I already feel forgotten with the CMS. If someone can sell me the HKS-80 for a reasonable price in NA, I'll buy it. I need to buy a table saw in 6 monthes. I was looking at the sawstop due to NA, but would rather incorporate the HKS 80 into my already existing arsenal.

I’ve seen the TKS 80 in action a couple of times, and it’s a nice, or really nice is more accurate but, the only attractions for me and probably most people is it has SawStop safety tech, and it’s Festool.

You guys already have SawStop tech, I also understand the modular point of view but, with the new systainers coming at different height to the previous ones, might make height equals more tricky.
I find now, a few makes of machinery have the height the same or similar to Festool.

The clincher or me is, we have a few portable table saw here but, I want/need the push/pull facility.
So I get it that people want them for safety but, in N.A. You already have this option.

Although maybe not fair, to not supply N.A. with the full range of Festool, which I’ve said a few times. I think Festool's thinking is the same as I mentioned, about selling you a variation of what you have access to already.

Works that way here too, there’s many things I would buy from N.A. But, they’re not available here, unless importing without warranty.

rmhinden · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2020, 11:39 AM »

I suspect the calculation is would this generate an increase in sales (SawStop + Festool), or would a sale of a TKS Saw just reduce sales of SawStop in the US. I suspect the latter.

There is a whole range of portable tables saws in the US Market, adding another and expecting significant sales would be a challenge.

BTW, I own a SawStop PCS and think it's great. Festool could learn a lot about how to write great manuals from SawStop, I hope they do.

Bob

Bert Vanderveen · « **Reply #10 on:** June 26, 2020, 05:02 PM »

I think the TKS is a saw that combines the best of two worlds: it’s a mix of a classic US-style cabinet saw, where one pushes wood over the blad along a guide (and uses sleds and such to circumvent the limitations of that usage) and the European-style slider saw, that is the superior way of cutting panels (I have noticed that a lot of American hobbyists do a double take on cutting panels: rough cut off the cabinet saw and to measure on it). The advantages of combining both models are evident: efficiency and precision.

Well, I hope to share my experiences once my TKS arrives (delivery has just been pushed back by a month — it seems that getting the product into the hands of 'influencers' is more important than delivering timely to people that actually PAY for it).

FestitaMakool · « **Reply #11 on:** June 26, 2020, 05:29 PM »

Quote from: Bert Vanderveen on June 26, 2020, 05:02 PM

Well, I hope to share my experiences once my TKS arrives (delivery has just been pushed back by a month — it seems that getting the product into the hands of 'influencers' is more important than delivering timely to people that actually PAY for it).

And that’s a shame, because innovators are the ones who order and nearly pay for it before a new product even hits its first production line, maybe even fresh of the drawing board, and the innovators are inspired again by the designers... - Influencers do not, and those who watch influencers are late adaptors who even don’t know why they need it..
so yes; you should receive it first Bert Vanderveen!

Alex · « **Reply #12 on:** June 26, 2020, 05:38 PM »

Yuck, influencers....... what was once an honest review has now turned into "I'll tell them anything you want for a few crumbs of bread ...... want my soul with that?".

But the number of influencers is small compared to factory production runs, should have no "influence" on your saw's delivery time.

Peter Halle · « **Reply #13 on:** June 26, 2020, 05:56 PM »

Are there influencers our there? Absolutely. But as Alex wrote, the delay is / was caused by something else. I would venture a guess that the pandemic and its resulting disruptions to supply chains and manufacturing might be the real answer.

Peter

Alex · « **Reply #14 on:** June 26, 2020, 06:05 PM »

Quote from: Peter Halle on June 26, 2020, 05:56 PM

I would venture a guess that the pandemic and its resulting disruptions to supply chains and manufacturing might be the real answer.

So true. I was there in Germany for 3 months when Covid struck. The German measures where draconian and they closed down large parts of their manufacturing, including Festool's factories and dealers and suppliers. In the end I couldn't even buy bags for my Midi anymore.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #15 on:** June 26, 2020, 06:29 PM »

How green grass is on other side of fences comes to mind in this thread.

In the end, lots of people one one side want what the other side has, and vice versa. I have no doubt if a lot of folks from the EU came to NA, they would quickly be disappointed with a lot of stuff here and miss what they had. Same for the other way around. Where the problem gets worse is when people never have a chance to decide what grass they would like. Others pre-decided what folks want on one side and only supply that, then big shocker, that becomes the norm there.

It would be nice to see more company let people decide and give things a chance. Festool looks to operate with a stereotype idea of what the N.A. consumer is and what they want, that doesn't help things at all.

On the TKS, I still don't see why people keep bringing up saw stop current NA products. Those don't in any way match up with the TKS. I don't see why anyone says something about the job site saw. If the current saw stop offerings were want someone wanted, they would just buy one by now. Festool could have brought the CS70 saw to the US market, it would clearly be welcome as the Erika is the only similar saw out there.

Ever since the spread sheet a few years ago with model number listings had a TKS80 NA part number in it, people have just assumed it will be offered in the US.

I've said it before, Festool should take a page from Mafell and offer stuff in the US as is, no changes, keep it metric, 230V, etc. Maybe it's not a high volume seller, but it's a good way to find out. It is what many folks are looking for, and forcing folks to go thru great hassels to buy stuff from Germany and get it here doesn't make much sense. You have the product, keep cost low by not messing with it. If it sells well and people want to see say a 110V version, maybe now you justify it. Or maybe find out people really don't want the modified version. Mafell got rid of the 110V/inch ruled Erika 70 in the US, now it too is 230V/metric like the 85. I have no doubt even things like selling 230V CT's in NA would generate a good bit of sales.

Svar · « **Reply #16 on:** June 26, 2020, 07:16 PM »

Quote from: DeformedTree on June 26, 2020, 06:29 PM

On the TKS, I still don't see why people keep bringing up saw stop current NA products. Those don't in any way match up with the TKS. I don't see why anyone says something about the job site saw.

It's brought up because both are portable and feature exact same technology - a key selling point. How they match up is unknown, because everybody here only saw TSK on pictures so far.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #17 on:** June 26, 2020, 08:18 PM »

Quote from: Svar on June 26, 2020, 07:16 PM

Quote from: DeformedTree on June 26, 2020, 06:29 PM
On the TKS, I still don't see why people keep bringing up saw stop current NA products. Those don't in any way match up with the TKS. I don't see why anyone says something about the job site saw.
It's brought up because both are portable and feature exact same technology - a key selling point. How they match up is unknown, because everybody here only saw TSK on pictures so far.

One is a saw, part of a modular system of components such as sliding table than can be built out in various ways. The other is just a generic saw that looks like any other smaller saw you could find at Sears. Them having the saw stop system in them is the only common item I see between the 2. I really don't see where there is cross shopping beyond someone who has a down select of "saw must have Saw stop" and is looking at all saws with "Saw Stop". They match up about the same as a TS75 compares to a 7-1/4 Skil Saw because they are both Circular saws.

I'm not in the market for one, while I would like to have such a system in a saw, it's certainly not the only thing that matters, it's a secondary function, it has to be a good saw that does what I want to do first. But I can certainly understand people getting frustrated when they ask about the TKS 80 and folks respond with "we have the Saw Stop jobsite saw, we don't need the TKS-80", that would get frustrating very fast.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #18 on:** June 27, 2020, 03:22 AM »

My ideal portable saw, would be a push/pull with safety such as SawStop. As far as I know that isn’t possible.

As much as I like the SawStop safety, it’s not a priority.
So for me, it’s a CS70, or Erika 85. Having used both numerous times, (in my opinion) the Erika is the better saw, by a fair margin too.

The non safety feature is a downer but, by design, when in pull mode these saws are a little safer than pushing. The other consideration is, we have a lot of machinery that doesn’t implement any safety features apart from guards and common sense, so I’m not going to get obsessed with SawStop tech.

Over this side of the water, until now, there was no SawStop feature, so it’s a draw for many but, like me, these people probably also have many other machines without safety features.

If the TKS 80 was push/pull, I’d be straight on it but, all said and done, it’s a nice portable table saw, with safety, that marries up with other Festool products. That’s good enough reason for many to buy one. Not me though.

jimbo51 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 27, 2020, 08:31 AM »

"I've said it before, Festool should take a page from Mafell and offer stuff in the US as is, no changes, keep it metric, 230V, etc."

My house built in 1990 did not have any 230 volt general use (not oven/stove/water heater) outlets. I had a 230 volt outlet installed when I bought a 3 hp Unisaw. Do most US houses built in the last 20 years include general use 230 volt outlets?

If Festool had launched the tracksaws in the US only in 230 volts, the sales would likely have been so small that there never would have been enough market to make 120 volt version seem feasible. I think a good example of Mafell's lack of interest in the North American market is the lack of 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 inch bits for their dowel machines.

MikeGE · « **Reply #20 on:** June 27, 2020, 12:54 PM »

Quote from: jimbo51 on June 27, 2020, 08:31 AM

My house built in 1990 did not have any 230 volt general use (not oven/stove/water heater) outlets. I had a 230 volt outlet installed when I bought a 3 hp Unisaw. Do most US houses built in the last 20 years include general use 230 volt outlets?

This is interesting, as I can't remember seeing a modern house (built after 1960) in the U.S. that didn't include at least one 240 circuit. The only reason I can think of to not include the 240V distribution is if the house was designed to use gas for the stove and water heater instead of electric. My first house in Virginia was built in 1965 and included 240V circuits for the stove, dryer, and water heater. My last house in Virginia was built in 1979 and included 240V circuits for the stove, dryer, water heater, well pump, and HVAC system.

None of the houses had general purpose 240V outlets, but there was capacity in the distribution panel to add more 2-pole circuit breakers. The electrical supply stores also sold 15A and 20A outlets for 240V circuits. These resembled the normal 120V 15A outlets, but the blades were horizontal.

I am happy that residential electrical distribution in Germany is 400/230V 3-phase.

FestitaMakool · « **Reply #21 on:** June 27, 2020, 04:56 PM »

I have absolutely none knowledge of your 120V system, but one of Katz-Moses late videos made me wonder why there’s not more technical equipment that runs 240V in NA:

And, I totally understand you over there who’d like a TKS - to be combined with Festool’s system accessories of yours. It’s a point that Festool and Saw Stop shouldn’t miss out on...