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Author Topic: Contridicting numbers on HEPA filtration  (Read 5688 times)

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Offline WarnerConstCo.

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    • Warner Mill Works
Contridicting numbers on HEPA filtration
« on: April 25, 2010, 12:16 PM »
On page 6 of this document (user's guide I believe)

http://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/469621_003_ct22-33_usa_hepa.pdf

It sates, bottom right part of page, 99.95% filtration.

In the printed catalog it states 99.99% particulate removal to .3 microns.


Thanks, just trying to answer a few people's questions.

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Offline Festool USA

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RE: Contridicting numbers on HEPA filtration
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2010, 12:22 PM »
Darcy, let me check with Rick since he's our go-to guy when it comes to specs and such.

In reading the manual that you link to, it says that the overall unit which refers to the CT and filtering system combined meets the requirement for HEPA 13 specifications which is 99.95%.  The filter alone is 99.99%.  But, let me verify that my assumption is correct.  I'll see Rick later today and should be able to post a confirmed response later.

Edit to add direct quote from manual:

Quote
The filtering performance of the overall unit, which
is fitted with a HEPA filter element (493334), corresponds
to HEPA quality H 13 (medium degree
of filtration 99.95 %).
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 12:28 PM by Shane Holland »

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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    • Warner Mill Works
RE: Contridicting numbers on HEPA filtration
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2010, 12:25 PM »
Thanks Shane!!

Don't let Rick off easy either.

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: RE: Contridicting numbers on HEPA filtration
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2010, 01:08 PM »
Thanks Shane!!

Don't let Rick off easy either.

Just in case there was some confusion, Shane is referring to Rick Bush, whose name may not get mentioned here very often.

Offline Charimon

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Re: Contridicting numbers on HEPA filtration
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2010, 03:20 PM »
I will take a stab at this.

The 99.95 to .3micron means it passes EU Class H (hazardous) Rating vacuum Standards  just as  US"HEPA" standard is 99.93 to .3micron.  The 99.999 is the actual filter capabilities.    This suggests that the vacs will work, but Festool will need to start supplying "tested/documented" filters   (same exact filter only indivually tested and documented)  to those of us who want to conform to RRP Paperwork requirements.

NOTE:  the confusion with "HEPA" filters and HEPA filtered Vacuums is one of the most glaring insites to the whole mess.

Craig
"The existence of the flame thrower proves that at one time, somewhere, somebody said, " You Know, There's a group of people over there that I'd like to set on fire right now but they're too far away."

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: Contridicting numbers on HEPA filtration
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2010, 03:31 PM »
Here is all it says about a hepa vac in the rules:

Quote:
745.83 Definitions
HEPA vacuum means a vacuum cleaner which has been designed with a high-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) filter as the last filtration stage. A HEPA filter is a filter that is capable of capturing particles of 0.3 microns with 99.97% efficiency. The vacuum cleaner must be designed so that all the air drawn into the machine is expelled through the HEPA filter with none of the air leaking past it.


and this:

Quote:
745.85 Work practice standards
(B) Remaining surfaces . Thoroughly vacuum all remaining surfaces and objects in the work area, including furniture and fixtures, with a HEPA vacuum. The HEPA vacuum must be equipped with a beater bar when vacuuming carpets and rugs.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 03:32 PM by WarnerConstCo. »

Offline Charimon

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Re: Contridicting numbers on HEPA filtration
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2010, 06:02 PM »
Darcy, I get that

"HEPA vacuum means a vacuum cleaner which has been designed with a high-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) filter "
 By definition to be a HEPA filter it must pass laboratory testing (each filter, as a completed unit--not just the media)   If a filter is from the same batch as other tested filters, but hasn't been tested and documented then it is NOT a  HEPA filter according to federal standard 209D (this is the governing standard) The US government Defined What is HEPA, however American consumers think that "HEPA" on some packaging means it is better....so the manufactures have responded by adding the name and using media that would meet the standards in their filters then went on to play games, guessing correctly at worse, 60minutes would do an expose, test a few and find out that the filters pass.  When dealing with the Federal government we have to use their definitions so if a filter is not tested/documented it is not HEPA even if it WOULD pass the test.   

Now.  this is the perspective from an educated lead abatement supervisor.  None of the training that i received touched upon this in my RRP class  which said basically if it says HEPA and it is not a "shop vac"  then you are probably ok.... [unsure] [wink]  The people who will inspect your jobsite and investigate complaints will initially be lead abatement inspectors  or those trained by them  and this is one of the things they look for. 
Thanks Craig
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 07:19 PM by Charimon »
"The existence of the flame thrower proves that at one time, somewhere, somebody said, " You Know, There's a group of people over there that I'd like to set on fire right now but they're too far away."

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: Contridicting numbers on HEPA filtration
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2010, 06:17 PM »
Craig it's 6 of one, half-dozen of the other.



Offline harry_

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Re: Contridicting numbers on HEPA filtration
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2010, 07:51 PM »
For the record do take this whole lead thing seriously and hope to get certified in the upcoming months. However, I am still curious as to who will be enforcing all this..OSHA? Or some other agency working out of the office of the mattress police.


Once upon a time.....

I was working in a previous trade and was cited by an OSHA inspector. Upon appeal it was determined without a shadow of a doubt that the inspector was completely CLUELESS to the specifics of the regulations to which I was cited. In the end OSHA thanked myself and my employer for our patience in the matter and admitted that they were clearly wrong in issuing the citation.

Funny thing,... three years later my crew was cited again for the very same thing. The individual who wrote the first citation was the supervisor of the person who wrote the second. Needless to say it was cleared up quite promptly.

In both instances above, the crew got shut down and people sent home. For those working an hourly wage, that can hurt. (the company did eventually pay the crew the lost hours)

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Offline Festool USA

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Re: Contridicting numbers on HEPA filtration
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2010, 08:12 PM »
Guys, I'm not in a convenient position to read the whole thread currently but wanted to post a quick update. My original assumption about the difference in percentages was correct per Rick Bush, our product manager.

Offline vteknical

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Re: Contridicting numbers on HEPA filtration
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2010, 12:12 PM »
He gives a good explanation of hepa filter vs hepa vacuum.

« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 06:49 PM by vteknical »