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Author Topic: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?  (Read 7990 times)

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Offline Canarius

  • Posts: 1
Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« on: May 29, 2018, 01:58 AM »
Dear all

I have 2 conturo edgebanders in my workshop, recently i bought a biesse jade240 industrial
Edgebander for a more industrial service.  As i go deeper in this world i found glue manufacturers
Like jowat who offer alternative professional eva glue in pellets and also pucks same size than festool and also 190-210 degrees melting point, more options in colours such as transparent and additives.

As i am in santo domingo, dominican republic, its expensive to bring here the 24 unit box of festool glue everytime for every colour and also it takes time.

My question is if there is and alternative brand or means to buy the glue pucks in larger quantities or maybe in transparent colour to buy just one as other machines allow.  Also if anyone has tried alternative eva glue pucks keeping quality and machine safe in a long term.

If alternative glue has the right melting point and is designed for edgebanding and dont see why not to try...maybe i am missing something?

Thanks for your advice

Regards

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Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1760
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2018, 07:12 AM »
If alternative glue has the right melting point and is designed for edgebanding and dont see why not to try...maybe i am missing something?
Apart from 'warranty void as of having used untested 3rd party stuff that did bad things to the machine'... not as far as I know.

Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2018, 04:30 PM »
Festool most likely buys their glue from a major manufacturer so the Festool pucks are probably industrial grade ( but standard ) glue. I would not worry too much about it.  Jowat I believe is a German manufacturer so chances are they are the one Festool gets their glue from in the first place. There is no magic glue in the Conturo, the machine does not sell enough to warrant a special glue formula so I would expect it to be good old fashioned quality glue. :)
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Offline Tmakita

  • Posts: 9
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2018, 10:34 AM »
I have used the jowat for a while, it is cheaper than the festool option and more readily available, for me at least,   the only issue is the the puck I get it is 3 times taller than the festool option, so I have to cut in half in order to load it into the machine

Offline safety1st

  • Posts: 188
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2019, 09:57 AM »
How do you cut it nice and even? Do you use a hot wire cutter?

Offline Tom Hummel

  • Posts: 8
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2020, 12:46 PM »
They are tough to cut, I put them in the freezer overnight and then cut them on the bandsaw with a carbide blade.  Then I spend about 15 minutes cleaning up the blade with a wire brush and razor blade [embarassed]

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 584
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2020, 05:22 PM »
They are tough to cut, I put them in the freezer overnight and then cut them on the bandsaw with a carbide blade.  Then I spend about 15 minutes cleaning up the blade with a wire brush and razor blade [embarassed]

How much cheaper are the jowat pucks ?  Because your 20-30 minutes aren't exactly free.

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2021, 06:04 AM »
it does state on the Festool glue puck box, "Made in the USA"....so Im assuming it may be made by someone such as Jowat...?

I bought a box of the Jowat glue pucks (White) to try in my Conturo as it works out at less than half the price of the Festool pucks.
As mentioned above, they are exactly the same diameter, but 3 times the height.....Cutting them down to allow them to fit in the Conturo is a right PITA and I have tried various methods and still haven't come up with a repetitive, successful way of doing it that doesnt involve spending ages cleaning up a bandsaw blade...!!!!

I've also tried a hot wire cutter but due to the nature of the material, it cuts but then tends to weld/ glue itself back together as the wire passes through the puck.

I must admit, I haven't tried the trick of putting the pucks in the freezer the night before cutting on a bandsaw, so will try that.

Has anyone else found a better method...??

I am thinking of ordering some Transparent Jowat pucks to try in the Conturo, but really want to find a way to cut them down before getting another 15kg pack....
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 07:32 AM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1299
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2021, 08:29 AM »
 [popcorn]

Watching this.  Has anyone tried good ol fashioned miter box? You can usually find a non slider for next to nothing.  Maybe just a dedicated saw for the job.  Or has anyone tried a tall knife like a cleaver and heating up the edge with a torch to try and slice it?  However heating it seems like it could cause other issues.   

So, just to clarify the Jowat glue only needs to get cut in half not thirds to fit in the conturo?

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1299
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2021, 08:58 AM »
They are tough to cut, I put them in the freezer overnight and then cut them on the bandsaw with a carbide blade.  Then I spend about 15 minutes cleaning up the blade with a wire brush and razor blade [embarassed]

How much cheaper are the jowat pucks ?  Because your 20-30 minutes aren't exactly free.

Did a quick check at hotmelt.com Jowat glue is $185 for 26.88 pounds of glue pucks they also come in a case of 48 but are approx 3x longer

The festool glue is $145 for 4.16 kg or 9.17 pounds. Its a strange coincidence that both come in case of 48 and if you take the 9.17# times 3 you get 27.51# almost the exact 26.88 # of the Jowat. Im sure a little material is lost in the cutting process so that could easily explain the difference. 

If the glue fit or a good way of cutting is determined I would have no issue running the Jowat glue in the conturo. From what I know the Jowat is a cheaper alternative to the Holzer pucks.  Im not sure if Holzer makes their own glue or not but if they do I would bet almost anything they make it for festool.  One things for sure the conturo just uses Holzer sized glue cartridge cut down into thirds.

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2021, 10:46 AM »
Just cut in half is all that is needed......In fact, two thirds of a Jowat puck/ slug would fit in the Conturo hopper.

I have tried an old Nobex mitre saw blade, both heated up and cold.....neither way worked and the heating up method ended up a right sticky mess....!!!

I think the bandsaw method is the best option so far but you need a blade that has wide gullets and few teeth per inch ....and as slow a speed as possible.....any build up of heat and serious clogging up occurs....
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 10:50 AM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2021, 11:01 AM »
If using a hot wire, you may need to find a way to clamp either side of the cut and spread it while cutting, to help the pieces separate while cutting.

I'm guessing that the ultimate answer is to get some molds and melt the big pucks into new, shorter pucks.  That's how they're produced, after all.

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2021, 11:15 AM »
If using a hot wire, you may need to find a way to clamp either side of the cut and spread it while cutting, to help the pieces separate while cutting.

I'm guessing that the ultimate answer is to get some molds and melt the big pucks into new, shorter pucks.  That's how they're produced, after all.

I'm pretty certain that they are cut to length with some type of blade.....Looking closely at both the Festool pucks and the Jowat pucks, they have identical blade cutting marks on each end and are cleanly cut with no sign of heat cutting from what I can see.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1299
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2021, 01:45 PM »
I agree they look cut to me as well. 

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2021, 01:50 PM »
Big sharp press brake?  This is one of those posts just screaming out for a factory tour video of some kind...

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1299
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2021, 02:07 PM »
One other thing I dont see the Jowat glue sticks in "clear" I know they offer it in pellets but I cant find clear holzer sticks. 

I thought of a small mechanics type press with a blade like a guillotine but that would be slow and might deform the shape unless you could find a piece of PVC that fit good to slip over the cartridge. 

For those that have used a band saw, How bad does the blade get and does it only "need" cleaning so it can be used to cut other materials.  Basically what Im asking if someone bought one of those small ryobi type bandsaws just to cut pucks does the blade get so gummy it causes issues when cutting the pucks or are you just cleaning it so the saw can be used to cut wood again.  I see those little bandsaws for $50 or less. One case of glue more than covers the cost of a cheap bandsaw. 

I doubt I would ever reach a point that I needed that much glue and was only using a conturo.  If someone is using that much glue I would assume they are making enough to justify a commercial edgebander.  However, for those that live in areas where the Festool is hard to get or even more pricy that changes things even more and the Jowat might be the best bet even with the additional work to cut it. 

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2021, 03:40 AM »
I have 2 bandsaws, one large floor standing model and a smaller bench model. I tried cutting a Jowat puck on the smaller model that has a 1/4" blade with 4 tpi.....it took about 3 attempts to cut through the 63mm dia, having to stop and clean the blade, bandsaw wheels, rollers & guides...a right b l o o d y mess! There would be no way you could use the bandsaw blade again without major cleaning.....The blade starts to adhere itself to the bandsaw wheels etc, etc as the adhesive cools down....

The glue starts to soften/ melt at about 95 degrees and as the cut proceeds, more adhesive gets stuck to the blade, then more heat is produced and the problem gets worse & worse.

It's a single speed bandsaw, so I cant slow the blade down......I was thinking of ordering a blade with fewer teeth and try that after the puck had been in the Freezer overnight.

I'm sure I saw the pucks on the Jowat site that stated they offered a " Colourless" puck...?? Perhaps the colourless is only available in pellet form and I was mistaken...?

I dont tend to use my Conturo every working day, but have needed to use it quite a lot more recently......Hence, I've been getting through more pucks and the need to cut more down.
I like the idea of a large static edgebander, but it is hard to justify the additional expense at the moment.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 03:53 AM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 1262
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2021, 10:37 AM »
I don't do edgebanding myself, (l use it so little, I only have used the iron-on kind) but found this thread interesting and did a google search with German searchterms and I found a similar thread on a German woodworkingforum.

link

If I translated it correctly, I think the method that worked for him is putting the puck in a benchvise and cutting it with a scraperblade on an oscilating multitool.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1299
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2021, 12:14 PM »
I sent an email to both Hotmelt.com and Jowat asking about ordering the glue already cut in half or if they could offer advise on cutting it ourselves.  Ill report back if I get any response.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1299
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2021, 12:37 PM »
Well I already heard back from the regional sales manager.  It doesnt sound like they have any intensions of offering the cartridges cut in half. 

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2021, 05:12 PM »
Any useful suggestions from them about the best way to cut them ourselves...?

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2021, 05:19 PM »
I don't do edgebanding myself, (l use it so little, I only have used the iron-on kind) but found this thread interesting and did a google search with German searchterms and I found a similar thread on a German woodworkingforum.

link

If I translated it correctly, I think the method that worked for him is putting the puck in a benchvise and cutting it with a scraperblade on an oscilating multitool.

I thin you got the gist of it.  This was Google's translation:

"had a flash of inspiration: oscillator with "scraper blade" - goes through like a butter cartridge clamped in a vice :emoji_slight_smile:

(I tried the hand fox tail at the beginning, it works 1 cm then the teeth are taped shut.)"

My guess is that since the scraper blade is toothless and sharp, it just works its way through with decent pressure behind it and never clogs.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1299
Re: Alternative glue for conturo KA 65?
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2021, 08:21 PM »
Any useful suggestions from them about the best way to cut them ourselves...?

No, only said that he sees how it could be difficult to cut  ::)Duh...